• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Aggressive armed cop Scenario, with a video

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
What would I do? If there is no crime then he becomes the criminal by assaulting me and pointing a weapon at me. He will get treated like every other potential assailant.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
What would I do? If there is no crime then he becomes the criminal by assaulting me and pointing a weapon at me. He will get treated like every other potential assailant.

That might be an exceptionally bad idea. There are better ways, less expensive ways, of resolving such.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

That might be an exceptionally bad idea. There are better ways, less expensive ways, of resolving such.

To each their own I guess....

I hardly stand alone on this, especially considering the extreme response suggested/implied. The "suggested" response approaches escalation and could deprive a person of some of the basic legal defenses.

Such replies as yours appear very derisive, unnecessarily so IMO.
 

MR Redenck

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
596
Location
West Texas
I dont know where any of you live, but according to the law, several counts of Disorderly Conduct were committed prior to the security officers involvement. I see no reason for those guy's to be there either...
The persons also seemed to be under the influence of something.
When the security office first instructed them to leave, they should have left.
I did not see any rights violations in the video. Those idiots did not have to be there at all. The store is for shopping, not loitering or creating negativity in the parking lot. I can only imagine what else that security officer has to deal with.
Honestly, I would love to have security officers at stores in my area to keep idiots out of my way.
"There Is A Good Reason Why That Store Spends The Money To Have Security At The Front Door"
Also, what if it was your store??????:uhoh:
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I dont know where any of you live, but according to the law, several counts of Disorderly Conduct were committed prior to the security officers involvement. I see no reason for those guy's to be there either...
The persons also seemed to be under the influence of something.
When the security office first instructed them to leave, they should have left.
I did not see any rights violations in the video. Those idiots did not have to be there at all. The store is for shopping, not loitering or creating negativity in the parking lot. I can only imagine what else that security officer has to deal with.
Honestly, I would love to have security officers at stores in my area to keep idiots out of my way.
"There Is A Good Reason Why That Store Spends The Money To Have Security At The Front Door"
Also, what if it was your store??????:uhoh:

What if it was my store? I would have called 911, and not only fired the officer, but had him arrested. The same as I arrested DUI off duty officers, and arrested other officers for breaking the law. This dufus is extremely lucky, IMO, he should have been arrested for assault. What in your opinion would make their actions disorderly conduct? Public lot, recording not illegal, and certainly did not give way to the barbaric way the officer acted. It seems to me, at least IMO, the officer was a ticking time bomb, and may still be. I intend to fire off a email to the Dallas Texas PD and call for an investigation and appropriate action.

He is an embarrassment to the uniform!:banghead:
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
What if it was my store? I would have called 911, and not only fired the officer, but had him arrested. The same as I arrested DUI off duty officers, and arrested other officers for breaking the law. This dufus is extremely lucky, IMO, he should have been arrested for assault. What in your opinion would make their actions disorderly conduct? Public lot, recording not illegal, and certainly did not give way to the barbaric way the officer acted. It seems to me, at least IMO, the officer was a ticking time bomb, and may still be. I intend to fire off a email to the Dallas Texas PD and call for an investigation and appropriate action.

He is an embarrassment to the uniform!:banghead:

+1

well said
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Ive watched the video a couple of times....when does this "officer" tell them to leave? The only thing I hear him say is that he doesnt want to be filmed.

Allow me to further explain my stance....

All to often in these days we see citizens, good citizens, arrested for no apparent legal reason. Some LE have this belief that their department and the courts will clear them of any wrongdoing in the field. And unfortunately, I believe that happens more and more. The "take it up with the judge attitude" seems to have given police the idea that whatever they do, regardless of how wrong it might be, it will be swept under the rug, and they will be cleared by the way of a settlement.

Badges do not grant extra rights.

Please explain to me the difference between the following two scenarios......

1) You are in a place you are legally allowed to be. Not in violation of any law. A random person walks up and pulls a taser, without cause.
2) You are in a place you are legally allowed to be. Not in violation of any law. A "police officer" walks up and demands your ID. And then pulls a taser.

IMHO, there is no difference. The second an officer violates the law, he is, by default, a criminal. We as law abiding citizens have the right to self defense against such criminals.

A badge does not give an officer a free pass for assault. And, with the information we have from the video, is exactly the crime he committed.

I do not condone deadly force in such a situation, however I do support a level of physical resistance, especially in situations as we see here.

Now, there may be egg on my face if it turns out these guys were in violation of the law. But from what I see, the only thing they can be charged with is being annoying. Which, the last time I checked, was not illegal.

The time of peaceful resistance is getting closer to the end. If we dont stand up against this type of behavior, it will get worse. And our elected officials have already proven time and time again what side they are really on.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
--snip--

The time of peaceful resistance is getting closer to the end. If we dont stand up against this type of behavior, it will get worse. And our elected officials have already proven time and time again what side they are really on.

No problems with your post until this last part - then a line is crossed per Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
No problems with your post until this last part - then a line is crossed per Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Comment about rule 15:

Of course, in state courts if you feel a law is unconstitutional (from a state constitution standpoint) then one would have to break it to challenge it. If one feels a law is unconstitutional from the federal constitution then one does not have to break it to challenge it. So one does not have to be arrested to challenge a law in all cases.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

No problems with your post until this last part - then a line is crossed per Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Comment about rule 15:

Of course, in state courts if you feel a law is unconstitutional (from a state constitution standpoint) then one would have to break it to challenge it. If one feels a law is unconstitutional from the federal constitution then one does not have to break it to challenge it. So one does not have to be arrested to challenge a law in all cases.

Not so - believe that having standing is all that is required.

However the primary point is "Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here."
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
The time of peaceful resistance is getting closer to the end.

No problems with your post until this last part - then a line is crossed per Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Not quite following, how is peaceful resistance to an illegal arrest advocated an illegal act?
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
No problems with your post until this last part - then a line is crossed per Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Grape I normally agree with most everything you have said, not this time. A tazer can be a deadly weapon, and it would have been for me after two heart attacks, AND metal tubes in my heart. A police officer would be legitimate in using deadly force to stop from being tazed. A citizen has the same rights to not be put in a situation with a armed man attempting to taze them. Whether in uniform or not, and he would have been in his rights by what is seen in the video to use deadly force. There is no doubt in my mind I would have used deadly force in that situation. I would not be subjected to being tazed. I would rather take my chances in court with the evidence of the event, than dead. I extremely shocked at the video and the terrorist way the officer acted. This is why IMO that Indiana changed their laws, though the constitution gives us the same stance.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Grape I normally agree with most everything you have said, not this time. A tazer can be a deadly weapon, and it would have been for me after two heart attacks, AND metal tubes in my heart. A police officer would be legitimate in using deadly force to stop from being tazed. A citizen has the same rights to not be put in a situation with a armed man attempting to taze them. Whether in uniform or not, and he would have been in his rights by what is seen in the video to use deadly force. There is no doubt in my mind I would have used deadly force in that situation. I would not be subjected to being tazed. I would rather take my chances in court with the evidence of the event, than dead. I extremely shocked at the video and the terrorist way the officer acted. This is why IMO that Indiana changed their laws, though the constitution gives us the same stance.

Wolf, you are talking about a specific situation and self defense (not an illegal activity) .. different than the posting that Grapeshot discussed. IMO
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Not so - believe that having standing is all that is required.

I think that standing in respect to state issues does require a violation; just my recollection. I think we have all heard of people in protests allowing themselves to be arrested ... so maybe a peaceful violation of the law could be considered appropriate.
 

MR Redenck

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
596
Location
West Texas
The question of disorderly conduct actually starts with the beginning of the video. See chapter 42 of the penal code.
If that was my store, I would have probably done a lot more than what the security officer had done.
I never said those guy's need the officers permission to video, but when your on the property of a public business, "ACT LIKE A GUEST"...

I actually see no reason why they needed to video anything at all. What was their purpose?
My expectations of Law Enforcement is to address what people are "Doing Wrong". Those idiots were not doing anything right!
Im not anti-cop, and I sure as heck wont hesitate to speak when I see LEO's conduct themselves improperly.

The problem I have with this video is the exact same problem I have when I go to public business in my area. "Always some POS creating a problem".. When the problem accure around me, I address it..!
How many of you people would have any desire at all to go shopping at that store when some FOUL MOUTH punks are gathered at the door in a disorderly manner???
I guess im the only one who might assume the officer heard the language and desided to address the conduct so other shoppers wont have to put up with it.
Film what you want at your own will folks, but dont be a foul mouth idiot about it.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Not quite following, how is peaceful resistance to an illegal arrest advocated an illegal act?


He hardly is suggesting "peaceful" resistance with the words "The time of peaceful resistance is getting closer to the end."

My admonition was in the form of a warning, not condemnation.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I think that standing in respect to state issues does require a violation; just my recollection. I think we have all heard of people in protests allowing themselves to be arrested ... so maybe a peaceful violation of the law could be considered appropriate.

Having standing doesn't require that the complainant actually be arrested or charged - only that he be deprived under color of law of what he may legally do. 1983 violations have been heard at both state and federal levels.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Not so - believe that having standing is all that is required.

However the primary point is "Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here."

With respect of the rule, and for further conversation, answer this.

This video is a perfect example of what I am talking about. People who, by all appearances, are doing nothing illegal. And a police officer, who apparently has some mental issues, decides he doesnt like what they are doing, and demands ID. When they dont show it, which is legal, he decides to assault and threaten bodily harm to them. Now, here is the question. In the above described situation, what, I ask you, would be illegal about physical resistance? Do you believe a badge gives an officer to, on a whim, assault someone? Do you believe that when an officer breaks the law that he becomes a criminal?

The LE community has used the court system to their favor when things like this happen. Why do you think there are so many videos of officers violating peoples rights by stealing cameras and making unlawful arrests? Because with cameras around they have lost their best weapon for defense of their illegal actions. Their word v ours.

That is why I support LEGAL physical resistance.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top