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WTH is going on in Aurora?

mobiushky

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Interesting that politicians from both the left and right have been talking about changing that of late...



A) If that were true, I don't know why anyone would join the military to accomplish that objective.
B) Like any other government employees, those who join the military make an economic calculation that the pay and benefits will be worth any hardships or risks they may incur.



As has been said before, "pack mentality."

I'm not gonna get into a discussion about how "bad" the military is. Glittering generalities are an invalid logical argument. While I would agree that some people do exactly as you say, it is not the overriding absolute. My only point in this observation is to shine a light on a the path that we are headed. I refuse to accept that we are already at that point because I know too many people who would not comply. And you can question that all you want. All I can say is I have a trust in these guys that can't be explained justly. BUT, with that said, I can completely see this path leading to the inevitable and whether that is 50 years, or 5 years I don't know. But in any case, it's not good.

Let me clarify, when I say "these guys" I don't mean all military. I specifically refer to my personal friends that I know only. Not the mass, the few.
 
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M-Taliesin

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Aurora, Colorado
Howdy Folks!
We like to say that governments rule by consent of the governed. Really?
Who among us gave consent for red light traffic cameras at intersections all over Aurora?
Who gave consent to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens after Katrina?
Who gave consent to the massacre at Ludlow? Or the next massacre at Columbine Mine?
Government/military/industrial attacks against civilians have been all too common in America over the years.

Let's keep things a little closer to home, shall we?
What about the Kent State killings by National Guardsmen who opened fire on unarmed students?
What about the cops dousing peaceful protesters in California with pepper spray?
What about the daily erosion of our rights and liberties seen in jurisdiction after jurisdiction across our nation?
How about the killing of a marine corps veteran in Tucson Arizona last year, shot by a SWAT team that put 60 bullets into his body?
Or the police shootings in California where so many bullets got fired, they could have wiped out a small band of insurgents?
The list goes on and on, and some of it has been put on public display for all to see and understand who has the better firepower.

Is it any surprise that, since the inception of television, the number of cop shows has dwarfed other types of programming?
And the cops are always the good guys, even when they violate rules of engagement or Constitutional safeguards.

The governments, at every level from Federal down to county and city, have convinced us to give up rights one after another.
For our own good, of course, and the greater good of society at large.

The greatest threat that Saturday in Aurora wasn't from the bad guy. He just robbed a bank.
The greatest threat to civilians was having cops pull innocent citizens from their cars with guns pointed at them.
Guns loaded, pointed at them, and the threat to their lives abundantly clear.

Don't think our law enforcement is a threat to us? Why are police forces all over America becoming increasingly militarized?
Because of terrorists? In Aurora, the only people terrorized were citizens confronted with cops pointing guns at them.
They were terrified. Their children were terrified. Folks seeing this outrage on television were terrified.
Who are our terrorists?

Unless we Americans stand up for our rights, we will lose them sure as shooting.
Unless we hold our elected officials accountable, they will end up being no-accounts.
Unless we demand a level of dedication to their oaths, they will break them, as they did in Aurora on Saturday.
Unless we all, every single American across this nation who love our Constitution and the inalienable rights they proclaim, there will be efforts made to alienate us from those rights.

I made calls this morning, and you can check the time stamp on my update in a post above.
My city council woman has not called back.
The mayors office hasn't called either.

They need to hear the outrage, from every corner of our land.
And unless they do, they'll have scored another victory in the march toward tyrrany.

When such abuse of power is evident, we must rise to confront it together.
Whether it is a rogue cop in Canton Ohio, or a whole team of rogue cops in Aurora Colorado.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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cch10000

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Franktown,CO
To anybody who says that the military would never take up arms against the citizens of the USA, you are kiddin right.

Its already happened. Besides the examples that M-T brought up do you remember Ruby Ridge, a total military operation against US citizens, or Waco Tx a Janet Reno sanctioned massacre of US Citizens by our US Military

It has happened and it will happen again.

CH
 

mobiushky

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Messages
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Alaska (ex-Colorado)
To anybody who says that the military would never take up arms against the citizens of the USA, you are kiddin right.

Its already happened. Besides the examples that M-T brought up do you remember Ruby Ridge, a total military operation against US citizens, or Waco Tx a Janet Reno sanctioned massacre of US Citizens by our US Military

It has happened and it will happen again.

CH

I think I need to clarify something really quick here. My whole point was not to claim it would never happen. My WHOLE point was to explain that I can see how it WOULD happen. And not just that it would, but how the process is going to make it easier in the future.

I don't know every single member of the military. I only know my friends, and I know they would not follow that order. And while I know that's hard to believe, all I can say is there is a bond there that most people don't understand. In a way that I trust these few people implicitly. I do not claim to trust all military members implicitly. Not a chance. My only point is, given the chance the men and women who are like my friends would not participate. BUT, they are becoming fewer and further between.
 

DocWalker

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Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
To anybody who says that the military would never take up arms against the citizens of the USA, you are kiddin right.

Its already happened. Besides the examples that M-T brought up do you remember Ruby Ridge, a total military operation against US citizens, or Waco Tx a Janet Reno sanctioned massacre of US Citizens by our US Military

It has happened and it will happen again.

CH

It wasn't the US military in either of those events; it was however civilian LEO using military tactics and weapons. This is how the goverment will get around the US miltiary in order to make free citizens not so free. They will arm and train local LEO to take control of the population, they will build detention centers....wait this is and has already happened.

It's not the military I fear it is the local LEO's that have been armed and trained using your tax dollars to do what they did in WACCO, RUBY RIDGE, and AURRA
 

cch10000

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Jun 10, 2012
Messages
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Location
Franktown,CO
Mob

Wasn't tryin to attack you or anything like that, Just sayin that its not that much of a stretch to think our Military would shoot Citizens if ordered to do so

If it seemed like an attack sorry, just the way I type I reckon

CH
 

mobiushky

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Messages
830
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Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Mob

Wasn't tryin to attack you or anything like that, Just sayin that its not that much of a stretch to think our Military would shoot Citizens if ordered to do so

If it seemed like an attack sorry, just the way I type I reckon

CH

No worries. Wasn't taken that way. I was doing a pre-emptive point in case we started heading that way. Just wanted to lay the foundation properly. Reckoning back to my old high school debate days, etc.

I try not to take anything personally.
 

Bellum_Intus

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May 13, 2012
Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
Don't forget Kent State.. (I WOULD NOT have fired in that case)

Waco, BATF blew that WAY out of proportion and put themselves in a bad position, sad tbh..

I was US Army for 18 yrs, if I were ordered to engage innocent civilians.. I'd consider that an unlawful order, however, if citizens were shooting at me.. that's another story..

--Rob
 

M-Taliesin

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Apr 22, 2011
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Aurora, Colorado
Howdy Folks!
I'd like to take a moment to update my progress with talking with city folks today about this travesty against the rights of citizens in this instance.
In addition, I'd like to also perhaps redirect the discussion at hand.

The problem isn't about our military. The problem is with law enforcement agencies all over America becoming increasingly militarized and more frequently prone to shooting first and asking questions later. There is too much testosterone poisoning among our LEO's, and it affects their ability to recall things... like they are servants of the people, not their rulers.

This case, according to new information I have at hand, also involved FBI agents. So the violation of Constitutional rights wasn't just a local affair, but one that involved Feds in the bargain. While I have been harranging local officals today, I anticipate contacting my federal representatives to the U.S. House and Senate tomorrow to demand an investigation. If federal agents participated in stripping citizens of Aurora of their rights under both the U.S. Constitution and the Colorado Constitution, they should be held to account as well. It should be assigned to the department of Justice for investigation, and appropriate charges filed against those who threatened citizens at gunpoint.

While talking with one official, she said "Your philosophical view may differ from what the officers observed on the scene." To which I replied, "The Constitution of the United States and of Colorado are not philosophical documents. They are the foundation of our laws, placing limits on the authority of government, and recognizing that power resides in the people! It ain't about philosophical views, it is about the rule of law!" And that's part of the problem within law enforcement. They regard a Constitutional perspective as a philosophical point of view rather than the basis of all laws in the United States of America.

I also spoke with my ward council person who told me she intended to raise this issue at tonight's meeting. I offered to go as a speaker, as I have a certain ability to articulate my concerns as a citizen. She informed that they've gotten quite a number of calls, some from outside Colorado. Folks around the country are watcing what unfolds here in Aurora. But we must keep the pressure going. They must understand that law enforcement is accountable to the people. They are servants of the citizenry, not their masters. They are here to protect and serve, not rule, dominate or threaten the innocent.

My own personal sense of outrage has grown over the last few hours, and I expect to call for an investigation from the Governor's office, and intend to contact my federal representatives and congress folks to demand action to set things straight. And if federal officers were involved in stripping away the Constitutional rights of citizens, they need to be fired without delay!

Along the way, in my conversation with one of those city officials, I stated my position: "The Constitution is the rule of law. It is not arbitrary, nor is it optional. It is the law that officers have sworn to preserve and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It cannot be simply shelved for expediency, dispensed with when inconvenient, nor set aside when cumbersome. The law is the law, and when officers break the law, there is only lawlessness."

So far as I am concerned, the officers involved in this situation were in outright and overt disregard of their sworn oath.
They ought not remain in service to the city when it has become evident their oath was nothing beyond words they repeated at a ceremony at city hall.
I have demanded that my city council person take an affirmative stand to uphold the rights of Americans living in Aurora, and set about cleaning house at Aurora P.D.

My statement was that any officer who pointed a weapon at a citizen is guilty of assault with a deadly weapon, and felony menacing. I reminded one offical that I recall an Aurora officer who was killed while taking SWAT training when another officer experienced a negligent discharge and put a bullet through his fellow officer's skull. So to say there was justification for pointing loaded weapons at innocent civilians was immoral, inconscionable, deadly and just plain unprofessional.

Anyhow, we need to keep those calls coming to Aurora city officials demanding, as I have, that officers guilty of pointing weapons at innocent citizens be tried for criminal acts. In addition, those who participated should each be reprimanded for conduct unbecoming an officer of the law. Finally, the chief of police needs to be immediately replaced. Sacked! Fired!!! Anyone who claims "The ends justify the means" is echoing the mentality of Nazi Germany, not the Constitution of the United States of America.
And if he doesn't understand that simple concept, he should not be holding the job tomorrow! Either he is ignorant of the Constitution, in which case he is unfit to lead a police department, or he is endorsing the outright stripping of citizens rights, in which case, he is unfit for command.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

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Aurora, Colorado
Outstanding job M-T

Howdy CH!
I think it is time for me to cobble together a new video!
Maybe my project for tomorrow!

I just saw a photo I hadn't seen of a cop pointing a shotgun at a civilian, and his finger was on the trigger!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me?

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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Bellum_Intus

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Rush, Colorado
VERY well thought out post and response.. I agree with you 100%.. the "ends justify the means" attitude really torqued me..

As far as training, I can tell you this.. we trained 'stimulus - response' in the military.. ie.. see a pop up.. shoot.. It was drilled to death in us.. and it works... In a war..

When I got out and began civilian training with Firearms, I had to FORGET that part of my training, the absolute LAST thing an officer, civilian, or anyone not in an armed conflict should do is shoot.

I agree, more LEO's are training 'tactical' again, I feel that's a dangerous direction as the stimulus - response is.. threat - shoot before they do.. and all they have to say is "i thought he was grabbing a gun" and it's a good shoot.. yeah.. BS..

anyway, I support you on this.. I don't live up there.. but if you need anything, hollar.

--Rob
 
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M-Taliesin

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anyway, I support you on this.. I don't live up there.. but if you need anything, hollar.

--Rob

Howdy Rob!
Thanks for your support. The only thing I can think of needing right now, if I decide to do a video, might be a little time using your range and somebody to shoot footage.
Aside from that, perhaps another "Outraged Colorado Citizen" call to the Aurora mayor's office!

Thanks again for the offer.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

cch10000

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Franktown,CO
How can we get this out of Colorado and into National News? Colorado is so involved with a bad fire. and justifyably so, this will go away very soon with no National Coverage.
 

M-Taliesin

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Aurora, Colorado
How can we get this out of Colorado and into National News? Colorado is so involved with a bad fire. and justifyably so, this will go away very soon with no National Coverage.

Howdy Amigo!
That's precisely why I am intending to make a video about this whole situation.
Somebody needs to rattle a few chains... like those on the handcuffs restraining innocent citizens of Aurora Colorado.

On another note, think about how they would have treated any of us who open carry and happened to be caught up in that shennigan?
What do you suppose officers might have done? Do you suppose the OC'er would have survived the encounter? How about CCW holders?
They find you with a handgun, and before you can whip out that CCW card, they're on you like a cheap suit?

They already created a dangerous situation. Victims sitting on the curb, handcuffed, unable to run or hide should the bad guy decide to start shooting.

The whole thing was a threat to public safety, to innocent citizens who were unlawfully arrested and handcuffed, and to passersby who might have found themselves hit by a negligent discharge from a police weapon. The possibilities for tragedy were astronomical.

This needs to be pounded hard, and I hope to do my part to make this an issue in Aurora, and if possible, around the nation.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Bellum_Intus

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Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
Howdy Rob!
Thanks for your support. The only thing I can think of needing right now, if I decide to do a video, might be a little time using your range and somebody to shoot footage.
Aside from that, perhaps another "Outraged Colorado Citizen" call to the Aurora mayor's office!

Thanks again for the offer.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

I have a range, and a video camera... and weekends.. =)

--Rob
 

mobiushky

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Messages
830
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Alaska (ex-Colorado)
I have a range, and a video camera... and weekends.. =)

--Rob

Not to butt in Rob, but for future considerations, I have a relatively decent prosumer set-up for videos. I have 2 HD video cameras and a distance mic that picks up from about 50 feet. I also have a full version of Sony Vegas Platinum that I use to do a ton of editing. It's a bit of a hobby of mine. I record and edit my kids theater productions. I'm not a professional videographer, but I'm cheap. LOL. Anyone wants help I'm available. Just offering my services.

Just need to pick up a dead cat for the mic to stop wind noise.
 
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