• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Rob Pincus self defense expert hates on Open Carry

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
It is about delegitimizing armed citizens

Here's a two second carry training that's better than anything out there:

You take the gun out of its holster only when you are going to shoot it ... it is not a tool to scare people with ...

While it has little to do with your comment, most people are against open carry for one of two reasons:

1. They want to delegitimize the idea of armed citizens, and open carry is a direct assault on that delegitimization

2. They are terrified of the Media and say, just do not make them mad or anger them, and maybe they won't come after us just yet, as in the old Russian parable about the sleigh and wolves, they want to be the last ones eaten.
 

ianto94

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
142
Location
, ,
Drawing from under the shirt

I took a training course from Combat Hard this past weekend. It was at least 3x harder drawing a concealed firearm compared to one carried openly (even with retention). I had a hard time pulling my shirt up and drawing my concealed blue gun.

Drawing from concealment takes some practice, but it is not hard to master.

My recommendation:

1. Use both hands.
2. Grab on both sides of the gun
3. Pull all the way up forcefully. Practice with a knit shirt, or an old shirt you don't mind ripping the buttons off of. In a real fight buttons will be your last concern.
4. Gun hand then goes into the draw stroke COUNT 1
5. Support hand should be holding the shirt just under the neck.
6. Gun comes up out of the holster COUNT2
7. Gun is rotated in the direction of the threat by bringing the elbow down COUNT 3 (also retention firing position)
8. Gun is punch out with support hand meeting in mid punch out COUNT 4
9. Gun fully punched out, sights aligned, slack out of the trigger ready to stop the threat COUNT 5.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
Let us not forget Rob is former law enforcement. He is one of those types that believe us "normal" citizens should seek government approval before exercising our "god given rights." Just listen to him for a few hours and it is not hard to see his view's and understanding of constitutional liberties. There is no "but" in the Second Amendment. Anyone that believes we should not have the right to openly carry a weapon obviously does not truly support the 2A. If I am remembering correctly Rob started training law enforcement, and then moved to citizens once CCarry went mainstream. It is extremely obvious that some are in this business for the money, and some are in it because they truly believe in the 2A and want people to have every advantage when dealing with armed aggressors. If you truly want people to get training to increase their ability to survive in a deadly force scenario, it should not matter how they choose to carry their weapons.

If open carry is such a horrible idea, why does law enforcement and military do so? Because it is a deterrent, and your weapon can be accessed much more quickly when your draw is not hindered with clothing.

Why does Rob and the Nudge speak out against OC so sternly? Because I guarantee they are well paid by manufacturers of cc gear and apparel. Both of these men also qualify for leosa protections, so they are above us normal folks! They have the LEO mindset that a MINORITY of our law enforcement have; that we must obtain permission, but they should not.
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Drawing from concealment takes some practice, but it is not hard to master.

My recommendation:

1. Use both hands.
2. Grab on both sides of the gun
3. Pull all the way up forcefully. Practice with a knit shirt, or an old shirt you don't mind ripping the buttons off of. In a real fight buttons will be your last concern.
4. Gun hand then goes into the draw stroke COUNT 1
5. Support hand should be holding the shirt just under the neck.
6. Gun comes up out of the holster COUNT2
7. Gun is rotated in the direction of the threat by bringing the elbow down COUNT 3 (also retention firing position)
8. Gun is punch out with support hand meeting in mid punch out COUNT 4
9. Gun fully punched out, sights aligned, slack out of the trigger ready to stop the threat COUNT 5.

Rarely do I wear buttoned shirts (I much prefer t-shirts). I know it takes practice, but I was just making the point it is more difficult to do. Also, the left arm is vital to keeping balance when running away from your target, or keeping your target at bay. There are a number of situations where the left arm is going to be used to get you the advantage over your attacker, such as if you have one knee on the ground because he is beating you. You use that left arm to grab his left leg and get him off balance so you can defend yourself with your firearm.
 

Medic1210

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
298
Location
Rockingham, NC
Drawing from concealment takes some practice, but it is not hard to master.

My recommendation:

1. Use both hands.
2. Grab on both sides of the gun
3. Pull all the way up forcefully. Practice with a knit shirt, or an old shirt you don't mind ripping the buttons off of. In a real fight buttons will be your last concern.
4. Gun hand then goes into the draw stroke COUNT 1
5. Support hand should be holding the shirt just under the neck.
6. Gun comes up out of the holster COUNT2
7. Gun is rotated in the direction of the threat by bringing the elbow down COUNT 3 (also retention firing position)
8. Gun is punch out with support hand meeting in mid punch out COUNT 4
9. Gun fully punched out, sights aligned, slack out of the trigger ready to stop the threat COUNT 5.

That's all fine and dandy provided you have unobstructed use of both arms/hands. Kinda goes out the window when you're having to fight off an attacker with your non-gun hand.
 

dmatting

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
445
Location
Durham, NC
Drawing from concealment takes some practice, but it is not hard to master.

My recommendation:

1. Use both hands.
2. Grab on both sides of the gun
3. Pull all the way up forcefully. Practice with a knit shirt, or an old shirt you don't mind ripping the buttons off of. In a real fight buttons will be your last concern.
4. Gun hand then goes into the draw stroke COUNT 1
5. Support hand should be holding the shirt just under the neck.
6. Gun comes up out of the holster COUNT2
7. Gun is rotated in the direction of the threat by bringing the elbow down COUNT 3 (also retention firing position)
8. Gun is punch out with support hand meeting in mid punch out COUNT 4
9. Gun fully punched out, sights aligned, slack out of the trigger ready to stop the threat COUNT 5.
That's all fine and dandy provided you have unobstructed use of both arms/hands. Kinda goes out the window when you're having to fight off an attacker with your non-gun hand.

I took his post as a joke - the steps seemed too ridiculous to be serious...
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
I took his post as a joke - the steps seemed too ridiculous to be serious...

[video=youtube;AUnBXLaWHrg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnBXLaWHrg[/video]

Works great if you don't have to use your weak side...
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Wow. Thanks for that - I really thought his post was sarcasm...

Oh, and if you have anything to say about Rob's tactics there, it has to be approved by him. Guess he doesn't like anyone questioning his author-i-tie.
 

Xulld

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
159
Location
Florida
Oh, and if you have anything to say about Rob's tactics there, it has to be approved by him. Guess he doesn't like anyone questioning his author-i-tie.

Same goes for Yeager. Recently I commented on one of his videos, half of my comment was in complete agreement with many of his concepts, the other half was asking for him to explain one of his comments, and how without an explanation it was meaningless. He basically said that lighter rifle rounds loose killing power when they drop below 2600 fps. He responded that I should look up high speed fragmentation and that basically I should get schooling (ie dont question him and take his courses). Very rude, and really did not address anything I said. I responded that as a gun enthusiast and physicist I was well aware of high speed fragmentation and that if the topic was penetration I would have understood, or if he had even mentioned penetration at all, I would have likely not said anything at all. Basically I was offering constructive criticism, he got defensive, was rude, and did not approve any further comments from me. Basically I was agreeing with his conclusion, but not his reasoning or lack there of, he did not respond as an objective instructor should. He responded as an egomaniac high on his own success.
 
Last edited:

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
There are three things about Rob Pincus you need to remember when you hear his stance on OC:

1) he is an ex-cop from New Jersey,
2) he lives and runs his business in NJ now (where OC is pretty much illegal), and
3) he makes money teaching concealed carry classes.

Considering his background, location, and current mode of employment, expecting him to be an advocate for OC is like expecting Monsanto to be an advocate for organic low-impact farming, or expecting La Cosa Nostra to be an advocate for the RICO act...
 

FMJ 911

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
350
Location
People's Republic of Snohomishia
You know, The Main #1 Reason I Open Carry? Because I like the Effectiveness of the Full-Size Kimber 1911 in .45 ACP. I am not going to be told by an "Expert" That I "Should" Conceal.

In an urban environment, the most important thing is Stopping Power. a .380 though a 3" Barrel is not going to produce the same result as a .45 ACP through a 5" barrel. And even if you want "Concealable Firepower", It's going to come at great cost to controllability, capacity, and accuracy.

Yes, I do have a P-64 in 9x18 "Makarov" Chambering. It's a small Handgun, and could be considered weak, but sometimes you do have to conceal, and I'm saving it for those times when I have to. Otherwise, I'm OC all the time. All Steel, Full Size Firearm, Big Boy Caliber.

No One ever tells me what I "Should Do". I do what I believe is right, and there's no time to lose when it comes to defending yourself and your family.
 

hjmoosejaw

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
406
Location
N.W. Pa.
I don't know what the percentage is of Americans that carry. But if maybe all of the people that concealed carry, open carried for just a couple of days. All of the thugs would think, Wow, there are a lot more armed people out here than I imagined. I would also like to see that. P.S, I found this after I typed the previous.

http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2004/12/percentage-of-adults-with-carry.html
 
Last edited:

dmatting

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
445
Location
Durham, NC
I don't know what the percentage is of Americans that carry. But if maybe all of the people that concealed carry, open carried for just a couple of days. All of the thugs would think, Wow, there are a lot more armed people out here than I imagined. I would also like to see that. P.S, I found this after I typed the previous.

http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2004/12/percentage-of-adults-with-carry.html

Some states only allow CC and you must have the privilege card to do so.

The link was from a blog post in 2004 using 2002/2003 data - I would have to say that those numbers are low nearly a decade later. Also, that only accounts for permit holders. In some states one can OC without a permit, so those gun owners and carriers are not even counted.
 

hjmoosejaw

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
406
Location
N.W. Pa.
Some states only allow CC and you must have the privilege card to do so.

The link was from a blog post in 2004 using 2002/2003 data - I would have to say that those numbers are low nearly a decade later. Also, that only accounts for permit holders. In some states one can OC without a permit, so those gun owners and carriers are not even counted.

Wow, you're right. I guess I should have looked at it more closely. It's busy here and I was in a hurry. I agree, the numbers should be a lot higher now. But you get my point. Wouldn't it be nice to see all of the carriers of both OC and CC all OC for a day or two?
 

F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
941
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
So.... Who the * is Rob Pincus and why the * should I care what he thinks????

OH, he has a TV show.... So does Will Hayden and I wouldn't take his advice on a squirt gun.
 

Medic1210

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
298
Location
Rockingham, NC
I don't know what the percentage is of Americans that carry. But if maybe all of the people that concealed carry, open carried for just a couple of days. All of the thugs would think, Wow, there are a lot more armed people out here than I imagined. I would also like to see that. P.S, I found this after I typed the previous.

http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2004/12/percentage-of-adults-with-carry.html

What I'd be interested in seeing is the numbers of CCW holders actually carry on a daily or at least regular basis. I know many folks that have their CHP, but don't carry on their person. Many folks I talk to who do get their permits, do it so they can stick a gun in their glove box. I would imagine the numbers of folks that routinely carry is minuscule compared to the total number of CHP/CCW permit holders there are in total. Seems the only folks I talk to who routinely carry, are like-minded people I see hanging around gun stores on a regular basis. I'd like to think the numbers would be high, but personal experience based on folks I talk to about carrying seem to indicate the opposite.
 
Top