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NOT the way to Open Carry....

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
If you are going to OC, please use a sling that does not sweep everyone around you and allows you to maintain positive control of your weapon....

Part of me hates saying this, but I'd have no problem, as a juror, handing over a guilty sentence for brandishing for folks who do this. It's negligent and reasonably fear-inducing to the point of being aggressive, frankly.
 

S&W500

Regular Member
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Oct 8, 2013
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16
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usa
Part of me hates saying this, but I'd have no problem, as a juror, handing over a guilty sentence for brandishing for folks who do this. It's negligent and reasonably fear-inducing to the point of being aggressive, frankly.

Ok to carry a pistol but not a rifle? Hippocrit. There is nothing wrong with exercising your right to carry. Who are you to say what should or should not be carried. They arent brandishing any more then any of the folks here who oc....whats wrong with you people? act like your for the right to carry but only if its a pistol? You sicken me.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Messages
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Fairfax County, Virginia
Ok to carry a pistol but not a rifle?

Is it your assertion that the only way to carry a rifle is such that the muzzle sweeps everyone around you? :rolleyes:

OC of a pistol in a holster doesn't compare. Even a shoulder holster covers the trigger guard.

Do you think hanging a pistol from a neck lanyard would be a responsible way to carry it in public? I don't. This is comparable to carrying a rifle in the manner displayed in the video from the OP.

I never implied that all rifle OC is negligent. Rifle OC where the muzzle sweeps passersby is decidedly negligent, however.
 
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S&W500

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Messages
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usa
Is it your assertion that the only way to carry a rifle is such that the muzzle sweeps everyone around you? :rolleyes:

OC of a pistol in a holster doesn't compare. Even a shoulder holster covers the trigger guard.

Do you think hanging a pistol from a neck lanyard would be a responsible way to carry it in public? I don't. This is comparable to carrying a rifle in the manner displayed in the video from the OP.

I never implied that all rifle OC is negligent. Rifle OC where the muzzle sweeps passersby is decidedly negligent, however.

No it is not my assertion. Only watched first moments of video didnt watch enough to see the retard pointing the muzzle everywhere. Took your post to be against the carry of rifle my mistake you have my appologies sir.

I will be certain to watch all of the videos from now on before inserting my foot in my mouth.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Part of me hates saying this, but I'd have no problem, as a juror, handing over a guilty sentence for brandishing for folks who do this. It's negligent and reasonably fear-inducing to the point of being aggressive, frankly.

What you just stated is akin to the statements of the hysterical antis... There are ZERO aggressive components to this method of carry. There is NO brandishing Statute for WI, and it clearly does not violate any municipal ordinance prohibiting the carry in a threatening manner. You are WAY out in left field here...

I never implied that all rifle OC is negligent. Rifle OC where the muzzle sweeps passersby is decidedly negligent, however.
I also do not agree with the "negligence" supposition... I do believe it to be in poor form, rude and it reflects unfavorably..
 
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pkbites

Regular Member
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Jun 2, 2006
Messages
773
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
Brandishing requires hands - on anyways.

There is no "Brandishing" law in Wisconsin. There is no law requiring how firearms be carried (holsters, etc).

From the brief clip it IMHO those gentlemen broke no laws. Had they I am certain my brethren lawmen would have arrested or cited them.

The only debate here is whether that was or was not a justifiable F.I. stop. I was not there and the clip doesn't show everything before. So on that issue I offer no opinion.
 

marshaul

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Fairfax County, Virginia
OK, well if there's no brandishing stature in WI, then so be it.

For some context, let's consider Virginia's brandishing law:

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-282

And my dictionary:

brandish |ˈbrandiSH|
verb [ with obj. ]
wave or flourish (something, esp. a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.

I would describe this manner of carrying as "waving" or even "flourishing". I don't care to cite (sorry), but I seem to recall instances where the threatening reference to a non-held firearm has been successfully prosecuted as brandishing. So I don't think the "hands on" rule is hard and fast, depending on how the law is worded.

As to aggression, it's clear that reckless endangerment is aggressive. Whether this constitutes reckless endangerment is up for debate. I would argue that it does.

To do so, I'd like to respond to davidmcbeth's remark:

Guns don't mysteriously discharge.

No, but they do when something enters the trigger guard and depresses the trigger. What, exactly, is preventing that with slung carry? This is why it's important to have redundancy in gun safety: do not allow the muzzle to point at something you don't wish to be destroyed.

A shoulder holster does allow the gun to sweep passersby, but it also protects the trigger from being contacted.

It seems to me that this mode of carry inherently violates one rule of gun safety, and does nothing to address another. If the gun is loaded, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Any number of things can snag in an exposed trigger guard, carrying during daily routines. This mode of carry is not safe.

I am not comfortable being swept with a self-defense weapon which is (therefore) presumably loaded.

If the law doesn't address it, then so be it. I will, however, engage in the rigorous shunning of anyone who threatens my safety with careless handling of weapons.

For the record, I didn't say this guy should be prosecuted. I merely opined that, were he, and were I on the jury, I'd wouldn't be uncomfortable convicting. That's a fact, it's my judgment, and I won't apologize for it.

How difficult is it to sling the rifle properly, anyway? :lol:

As far as I am concerned, you can carry a rifle all day. Just don't point it at me (or allow it to be pointed at me), OK?
 
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pkbites

Regular Member
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Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
Field Interrogation?

No, F.I. is short for "Field Interview". An interview and an interrogation are actually not the same. At least under the policies of some agencies in this state. And as I posted, it's the only thing up for debate. I wasn't there nor know the entire circumstance, so I decline to post any comment or opinion as to whether it was a valid stop. So I abstain from debating it. Knock yourself out over it if you wish. By now you're probably aware I don't defend fellow officers when they are clearly wrong, nor do I attack when I haven't the entire story.

OK, well if there's no brandishing stature in WI, then so be it.
For some context, let's consider Virginia's brandishing law:

Virginia? Please take this with a grain of salt, but who gives a rip? How about the law in Timbuktu while you're at it. It's irrelevant.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Jul 12, 2011
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3,428
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northern wis
Unlike the Appleton event the police didn't take up 40 minutes of their time trying to trump up charges.

Maybe they are learning from their mistakes and the fact the it can cost them money.

Different departments I know.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
It is possible that the cant of the AR was a result of retrieving his ID, if carried in the back pocket.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/09/open-carry-rifle-shotgun-wisconsin/2953317/

The above link includes a photo where the AR is slung in a "more safe" manner.

My only gripe is the shotgun dude. One big azz shotty to be carrying around, what seven, maybe eight feet long that thing is. Probably a 100 round tube mag. Weighs about 56.3 pounds, at least. Though, it could make a usable crutch if a leg injury is sustained.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
It is possible that the cant of the AR was a result of retrieving his ID, if carried in the back pocket.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/09/open-carry-rifle-shotgun-wisconsin/2953317/

The above link includes a photo where the AR is slung in a "more safe" manner.

I suppose that would mitigate things somewhat, but if doing regular things (producing a wallet) causes your form of carry to become unsafe, it somewhat begins to call into question that mode of carry itself.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
No, F.I. is short for "Field Interview"... I decline to post any comment or opinion as to whether it was a valid stop. So I abstain from debating it. Knock yourself out over it if you wish. By now you're probably aware I don't defend fellow officers when they are clearly wrong, nor do I attack when I haven't the entire story..

You brought it up and I an genuinely curious. Please shed some light on this. Is an "Interview" consensual? Why would you need justification for a consensual stop and question? It seems like good community interaction to me if they are finding out what they are doing and opening a dialogue.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
It is possible that the cant of the AR was a result of retrieving his ID, if carried in the back pocket.

The above link includes a photo where the AR is slung in a "more safe" manner.
There is little practical difference between the 2 angles of carry. He is using the incorrect sling/position for walking around with that rifle. It is impractical as he has little control over the weapon. It WILL easily bump into things/people as he walks around if others are near him and he is going about normal interaction/business.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
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Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Indeed, but then I never argued this man should be prosecuted, only that he's negligent and dangerous.
.. if doing regular things (producing a wallet) causes your form of carry to become unsafe, it somewhat begins to call into question that mode of carry itself.
Nothing portrayed was inherently negligent or unsafe, no matter how intimidating people may find it. It is no less safe than a horizontal shoulder holster so long as his finger is off of the trigger and the safety is engaged unless you consider the safety of the carrier as he will find it difficult to maintain control of the weapon while carrying it in that manner. Where issues could arise is when the rifle bumps against things and if something were to get caught in between the trigger guard and trigger. This is more of a practical consideration in the field than in the concrete jungle..
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
I suppose that would mitigate things somewhat, but if doing regular things (producing a wallet) causes your form of carry to become unsafe, it somewhat begins to call into question that mode of carry itself.

There is little practical difference between the 2 angles of carry. He is using the incorrect sling/position for walking around with that rifle. It is impractical as he has little control over the weapon. It WILL easily bump into things/people as he walks around if others are near him and he is going about normal interaction/business.

It seems, though I have no facts to substantiate my contention, that the cops were not too concerned about the form of carry. I don't OC a long gun because that is a site rules violation and OCDO might find out. I also would not be standing too close to that fella either.
 
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