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Internet Censorship on the Table

impulse

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"Several lawmakers and the current Cyber Command chief Gen. Keith Alexander are toying with the notion of creating a ".secure" domain where Fourth Amendment rights to privacy are voluntarily foregone in order to keep that corner of the Internet free of cyber criminals."

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011...f-separate-internet-could-curb-cyber-threats/

I think someone is getting a little nervous about Anonymous. All I can say is, good luck.
 

marshaul

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The U.S. Internet, by virtue of its adherence civil liberties, is more like the wild west. Everyone does everything online anonymously, and while that's great for liberties, it's also dangerous when cyber criminals/foreign hackers are roaming the cyber countryside.

Idiots.
 

slowfiveoh

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I love how they think that they can "control" the internet, the infrastructure of which, isn't comprehensively mapped.

IPV6 is going to give them a little bit of aid in achieving their goals, but truth be told, eventually somebody will find a way around that too.


Long live darknets.
 

Dreamer

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Saying they can make a "secure" corner of the internet by creating a 4A-free registration zone is like saying they can make Washington DC safe by making the carry of handguns by law-abiding citizens illegal.

How's that working out for ya, Washington?

There will be scores of teenage hackers from Eastern Europe and Asia climbing all over this "secure Internet zone" within weeks of it being created, totally PWNing the entire thing...

Idiots.
 

Brass Magnet

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Censorship....Boooooo!

censorship-sucks-censorship-censor-censored-nude-topless-nak-demotivational-poster-1252013366.jpg


censorship.jpg


I sure as heck wouldn't use that domain. Talk about the government knowing everything about you.
 

eye95

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My bank requires me to jump through some extra hoops to absolutely establish my identity before they grant access to my account. This is not censorship. This is not a violation of the 4A. The proposal is to create a substructure of the Internet that similarly requires such absolute ID in order to voluntarily participate if he wants to be fully identified and if he wants all whom he deals with to be fully identified. That is not censorship. That is not a violation of the 4A.

Personally, I think the idea is silly and that BGs will find a way to abuse it anyway. That does not mean that the idea is not worth exploring. Just as silly is the hyperbole of calling this idea a "violation of the 4A" or "censorship." The wild-west Internet will continue to exist. A voluntary subset will also exist. Don't like it? Don't use it! That is true Liberty: The right to choose not to exercise a right!
 

Brass Magnet

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My bank requires me to jump through some extra hoops to absolutely establish my identity before they grant access to my account. This is not censorship. This is not a violation of the 4A. The proposal is to create a substructure of the Internet that similarly requires such absolute ID in order to voluntarily participate if he wants to be fully identified and if he wants all whom he deals with to be fully identified. That is not censorship. That is not a violation of the 4A.

Personally, I think the idea is silly and that BGs will find a way to abuse it anyway. That does not mean that the idea is not worth exploring. Just as silly is the hyperbole of calling this idea a "violation of the 4A" or "censorship." The wild-west Internet will continue to exist. A voluntary subset will also exist. Don't like it? Don't use it! That is true Liberty: The right to choose not to exercise a right!

The first part of your post: Non Sequitur
1. Your bank; isn't required to do so by the government. (My bank doesn't ID me.)
2. Your bank requiring your ID is not subject to the 4A because it's not the government.

On the other hand, you're right that it isn't censorship per se and requires you to volunteer to give up your privacy but; and I'm hypothisizing here, the domain will almost certainly be censored. Wait for the bill and see what else they try to slip in there; that's what I'm really worried about.
 
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eye95

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Your whole post is a non-sequitur. The government will not mandate use of .secure. The existence of the subset for voluntary use is a proposal.

I gave the example of my bank by way of helping folks understand the actual .secure proposal (as opposed to the myth perpetuated in this thread). To participate voluntarily in the .secure subset, you have to establish your identity, much like I have to establish my identity to participate voluntarily in the subset that is my bank's Internet presence.
 

slowfiveoh

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My bank requires me to jump through some extra hoops to absolutely establish my identity before they grant access to my account. This is not censorship. This is not a violation of the 4A. The proposal is to create a substructure of the Internet that similarly requires such absolute ID in order to voluntarily participate if he wants to be fully identified and if he wants all whom he deals with to be fully identified. That is not censorship. That is not a violation of the 4A.

Personally, I think the idea is silly and that BGs will find a way to abuse it anyway. That does not mean that the idea is not worth exploring. Just as silly is the hyperbole of calling this idea a "violation of the 4A" or "censorship." The wild-west Internet will continue to exist. A voluntary subset will also exist. Don't like it? Don't use it! That is true Liberty: The right to choose not to exercise a right!

Not all of the internet is "banking". Nobody is talking about account security and the like. Just remember, every piece of software is dependent upon other pieces of software, right down to the firmware embedded on peripheral devices.

The breaches into Sonys networks were done with a simple SQL injection. One of the most outdated and trivial of "crack" attacks. Also, one of the easiest to prevent against as well. These are the people you entrust your credit card info to. Similarly, the sites affected by lulzsec that were child sites of the FBI, or one of their highly reputable "whitehat" partners (A whitehat is a hacker, or hacking group and/or company dedicated to peacefully test outside entities, usually by contract, for security risks to their IS infrastructure.), supposedly whitehats of such reputability that hacking their own systems should have been a nightmarish task for hackers/crackers/phishers to breach. These are the people you trust your security to.

Determining what media, or content, is being passed back and forth between a client computer on a given ISP, is actually a little more dynamic than what many people think is possible.

The ability to transfer information over the internet comes to us by segmenting information into little bits of code called "packets". A packet, in layman terms, is nothing more than say, taking a document, and cutting it up into little bits of "data" with a bit of fault tolerance to check the following packets data consistency (TCP/IP transmissions anyways), until eventually the other end is looking at the same document you sent to them, piece by itty-bitty tiny piece.

Intercepting these documents should be, certainly, a violation of the 4th Amendment.

We can talk about cybersecurity all we want, but so long as there is software, and so long as there are millions of routing paths, leading to millions upon millions of lines of code, you should be careful about what you submit over the internet.



If you guys want to see some serious stuff, look up the Narus STA 6400.

It's what the FBI and Homeland Security use in conjunction with the Patriot Act to compromise your privacy.
 

Brass Magnet

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Your whole post is a non-sequitur. The government will not mandate use of .secure. The existence of the subset for voluntary use is a proposal.

I gave the example of my bank by way of helping folks understand the actual .secure proposal (as opposed to the myth perpetuated in this thread). To participate voluntarily in the .secure subset, you have to establish your identity, much like I have to establish my identity to participate voluntarily in the subset that is my bank's Internet presence.

My first post? Yeah, I'll go along with that; even though I was posting in reference to the OT posts above. admittedly, I was in more of a hurry to post my pictures than read the article thoroughly. My second post? Hardly. Anyway, calling mine non-sequitur dosn't make yours follow. After all, that would be a different logical fallacy.

Back on topic, as for the hypothesis part of my second post, history has shown that once the government has something controlling in place they are extremely likely to start mandating it's use. Maybe all online payments will have to go through .secure...for our safety of course. I guess we'll find out. Bet ya 5 bucks I'm right.
 
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slowfiveoh

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The ambiguity of the Internet is probably the modern cornerstone of free speech. Even if you can't say what you want at some particular place, you can certainly do it somewhere else, and get your point across.

The beauty of which, allows you to not go to that particular site, if you choose not to.



The presence of "security" that the government wants to achieve is actually better defined by the word "control". A transition to IPV6 will greatly add to this ability.

Do not kid yourself. The government wants to be able to absolutely control every facet of your internet experience, and they ARE tooling up to do so comprehensively.
 

Brass Magnet

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We have a winner!

The ambiguity of the Internet is probably the modern cornerstone of free speech. Even if you can't say what you want at some particular place, you can certainly do it somewhere else, and get your point across.

The beauty of which, allows you to not go to that particular site, if you choose not to.



The presence of "security" that the government wants to achieve is actually better defined by the word "control". A transition to IPV6 will greatly add to this ability.

Do not kid yourself. The government wants to be able to absolutely control every facet of your internet experience, and they ARE tooling up to do so comprehensively.

Ding ding ding ding!
 

eye95

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My first post? Yeah, I'll go along with that; even though I was posting in reference to the OT posts above. admittedly, I was in more of a hurry to post my pictures than read the article thoroughly. My second post? Hardly. Anyway, calling mine non-sequitur dosn't make yours follow. After all, that would be a different logical fallacy.

Back on topic, as for the hypothesis part of my second post, history has shown that once the government has something controlling in place they are extremely likely to start mandating it's use. Maybe all online payments will have to go through .secure...for our safety of course. I guess we'll find out. Bet ya 5 bucks I'm right.

Then object to the mandate. Objecting to the creation of the .secure subset sans mandate is a bit like objecting to the ownership of a gun that someone might misuse!

Again, folks, don't buy into the mythology that is being perpetuated in this thread. Find out what is actually being suggested.
 

Brass Magnet

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Then object to the mandate. Objecting to the creation of the .secure subset sans mandate is a bit like objecting to the ownership of a gun that someone might misuse!

Again, folks, don't buy into the mythology that is being perpetuated in this thread. Find out what is actually being suggested.

I disagree that this is anything like objecting to a private citzen having a gun; which I have no right to do. Also, yes; as long as it remains optional. But what won't they tell you about the information they are collecting optional or not?

If I may use your same tactic; what you are implying is like saying that it's wrong to object to gun registration because it will never be used to confiscate guns. Come on man!

This is fertile ground for government abuse.
 
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Brass Magnet

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It is still the objection to a useful tool simply because it might be misused. Foolishness. Object to the misuse.

How can it be foolishness when "useful tools" have been misused by the government throughout history? Not looking at history is the foolishness. History has taught us that if it can be misused it will be misused; especially where the government is concerned.

I mean; after all, the commerce clause is certainly a useful tool for government. The 16th amendment also is most useful to them. Heck, even the 14th amendment which was useful to us as well is about to get misused. I won't even get into the Liberal interpretation of the general welfare clause. Do I really need to list the hundreds of "useful tools" that have been misused over the years? Foolishness!? Ha!
 
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eye95

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How can it be foolishness when "useful tools" have been misused by the government throughout history? Not looking at history is the foolishness. History has taught us that if it can be misused it will be misused; especially where the government is concerned.

I mean; after all, the commerce clause is certainly a useful tool for government. The 16th amendment also is most useful to them. Heck, even the 14th amendment which was useful to us as well is about to get misused. I won't even get into the Liberal interpretation of the general welfare clause. Do I really need to list the hundreds of "useful tools" that have been misused over the years? Foolishness!? Ha!

Again, object to the misuse. Objecting to the tool because it might be misused could foolishly justify removing all tools from everyone.

This is getting repetitive. Moving on.
 
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