Who is Willing to Step up to the Plate and Take a Swing?

BigDave · Nov 5, 2011

With this New Court of Appeals Decision Concerning Parks in Seattle in the arsenal, who out there is going to take up the cause to clear up local city and county ordinances on firearms issues?
Or is there just more talk then action when it comes to standing up for our rights.

:shocker: If you are offended by this, then maybe you need to take a better look at your position.

There are several here that are more then willing to assist that have been through it the process.

FMCDH · Nov 5, 2011

My guess is that it will continue to be the same people who have been.

It would be nice however to get additional voices warning these counties and cities. If nothing else, a letter writing campaign from those who don't want to go to the council meetings and talk to them directly.

I have a feeling this new judgment will be a tipping point for many of the councils that have been sitting on the fence on this.

MSG Laigaie · Nov 5, 2011

I do not like going to seattle. Still, I have to go there on Pearl Harbor Day. I might as well take a stroll thru the park while I am in town.

BigDave · Nov 5, 2011

I feel if we just look at our home towns where we live and see if they have ordinances that are in violation and if so, step up.

A while back I challenged others and Goose stepped up when asked, what have you done for the movement today? and he went at it in Bonney Lake with a positive outcome of them repealing their ordinances.

All it takes for one to take that first step and then follow up with the next until done.

OrangeIsTrouble · Nov 5, 2011

BD, would you throw up a few emails/letters samples that have been sent in the past to serve as template examples?

Vitaeus · Nov 5, 2011

Kitsap County

Just spent a bit reading through:
Kitsap County: seems to comply http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/kitsapcounty/
Bremerton: they either reference the relevant RCWs or copy them basically verbatim. http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/bremerton.html
Port Orchard: in compliance http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/portorchard/
Poulsbo: in compliance http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/poulsbo/

For the parks and courthouses, no personal experience to add. Port Orchard Chief of Police has talked to me and a few other locals at events and never said anything except it's lawful to OC

BigDave · Nov 5, 2011

GreenIsFaster said:
BD, would you throw up a few emails/letters samples that have been sent in the past to serve as template examples?

I have found it to be helpful on these issue to have the information of the offending ordinances and proceed from there, as most cities and counties have different issues and one needs to be specific when addressing the issues.

I have helped others and they took the ball and ran with it in the way they wanted to pursue it. Not that they copied and just forward my information.
By gathering information from others one can then address many issues and prepare themselves in the process to address the City Councils or Commissioners.

Do you have one or more issues in your home town you wish to address?

BigDave · Nov 5, 2011

Vitaeus said:
Just spent a bit reading through:
Kitsap County: seems to comply http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/kitsapcounty/
Bremerton: they either reference the relevant RCWs or copy them basically verbatim. http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/bremerton.html
Port Orchard: in compliance http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/portorchard/
Poulsbo: in compliance http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/poulsbo/

For the parks and courthouses, no personal experience to add. Port Orchard Chief of Police has talked to me and a few other locals at events and never said anything except it's lawful to OC

Great job, hopefully more will follow your example and take a few moments to search their local city and county ordinances for their firearms ordinances.
Most of the hosting websites for these ordinances are searchable and each to locate the specific violations with keys words as firearm, weapon or gun.

MadHatter66 · Nov 5, 2011

Vitaeus said:
Just spent a bit reading through:Kitsap County: seems to comply http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/kitsapcounty/Bremerton: they either reference the relevant RCWs or copy them basically verbatim. http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/bremerton.htmlPort Orchard: in compliance http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/portorchard/Poulsbo: in compliance http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/poulsbo/For the parks and courthouses, no personal experience to add. Port Orchard Chief of Police has talked to me and a few other locals at events and never said anything except it's lawful to OC

A lot of cities that don't want to come up with their own language just adopt the RCW as their law.

Here in Kitsap everyone is in compliance after the last big picnic we had, the last holdout was the county. As BD would apparently disagree, I am actually working with the parks commissioner to change the signage in the park. He was finally made aware of the change in the county code, and because of budget cuts cannot get new signs for the county, but we did come up with the solution of placing blanks over the offending part of the sign, until such a time that the department has enough money to get new signs for the parks in the county. Right now I have a lot of time on my hands, and I like to take my dog out for walks and such, so I have been visiting many of the county parks and the more popular parks have been fixed but some of the outlying parks are still not fixed.

FMCDH · Nov 5, 2011

I reported about the status of the towns around me a few years ago in this thread.... http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?52767-Local-codes-brought-in-line-with-state-law

However, here is the current breakdown last checked a few months back....

Kenmore - In compliance

Bothell - Ordinance not in compliance, has been notified multiple times, no answer.
8.60.350 Firearms, weapons.
No persons except duly authorized law enforcement personnel shall possess a firearm with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism; nor shall any person discharge across, in or onto any Bothell park area a firearm, bow and arrow, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property, except where the department for good cause has authorized special recreational activity upon finding that it is not inconsistent with Bothell park use. (Ord. 1835 § 1, 2000; Ord. 1277 § 1, 1987).

Lake Forest Park - Park ordinance not in compliance, has been notified multiple times, no answer.
12.08.050 Fireworks and weapons.
It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm or fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or to shoot or fire any air gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot in any park. (Ord. 93 § 7, 1966)

Woodinville - In compliance

Lake City - In compliance

Kirkland - City Municipal Code not in compliance, apparently they have been contacted according to page one of the thread above.
11.41.060 Weapons banned in certain places.
Notwithstanding Section 11.41.020, it is unlawful for any person to possess a firearm in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises, in public parks, on public or private school grounds, in the Kirkland City Hall, or in the Kirkland Police Department, except the public entrance area thereto; provided that RCW 9.41.270 (3) is adopted as exception to this section. (Ord. 2768 § 2 (part), 1983)

Redmond - Signage not in compliance, has been notified at least once, reports no money to change signs

Monroe - In compliance

BigDave · Nov 5, 2011

MadHatter66 said:
A lot of cities that don't want to come up with their own language just adopt the RCW as their law.
Here in Kitsap everyone is in compliance after the last big picnic we had, the last holdout was the county. As BD would apparently disagree, I am actually working with the parks commissioner to change the signage in the park. He was finally made aware of the change in the county code, and because of budget cuts cannot get new signs for the county, but we did come up with the solution of placing blanks over the offending part of the sign, until such a time that the department has enough money to get new signs for the parks in the county. Right now I have a lot of time on my hands, and I like to take my dog out for walks and such, so I have been visiting many of the county parks and the more popular parks have been fixed but some of the outlying parks are still not fixed.

It is not that I disagreed, I made a suggestion to take it to the Council or Commissioners and ultimately it has always been my position that the one dealing with it they handle in the best way they know how. If that is disapproving then we do not see it the same way.

BigDave · Nov 5, 2011

FMCDH said:
I reported about the status of the towns around me a few years ago in this thread.... http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?52767-Local-codes-brought-in-line-with-state-law

However, here is the current breakdown last checked a few months back....

Kenmore - In compliance

Bothell - Ordinance not in compliance, has been notified multiple times, no answer.
8.60.350 Firearms, weapons.
No persons except duly authorized law enforcement personnel shall possess a firearm with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism; nor shall any person discharge across, in or onto any Bothell park area a firearm, bow and arrow, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property, except where the department for good cause has authorized special recreational activity upon finding that it is not inconsistent with Bothell park use. (Ord. 1835 § 1, 2000; Ord. 1277 § 1, 1987).

Lake Forest Park - Park ordinance not in compliance, has been notified multiple times, no answer.
12.08.050 Fireworks and weapons.
It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm or fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or to shoot or fire any air gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot in any park. (Ord. 93 § 7, 1966)

Woodinville - In compliance

Lake City - In compliance

Kirkland - City Municipal Code not in compliance, apparently they have been contacted according to page one of the thread above.
11.41.060 Weapons banned in certain places.
Notwithstanding Section 11.41.020, it is unlawful for any person to possess a firearm in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises, in public parks, on public or private school grounds, in the Kirkland City Hall, or in the Kirkland Police Department, except the public entrance area thereto; provided that RCW 9.41.270 (3) is adopted as exception to this section. (Ord. 2768 § 2 (part), 1983)

Redmond - Signage not in compliance, has been notified at least once, reports no money to change signs

Monroe - In compliance

So where are you going to start?
I noticed you said they had been contacted, did anyone take it to the city council as to a Public Meeting and Present it during Public Comments?

FMCDH · Nov 5, 2011

BigDave said:
So where are you going to start?
I noticed you said they had been contacted, did anyone take it to the city council as to a Public Meeting and Present it during Public Comments?

With Kirkland, I have no idea. I didn't even realize they still had contrary wording on their books until today when I started confirming codes for that post.

I have notified both Bothell and Lake Forest Park directly at their city council meetings several times, but not since the new ruling. Its worth putting them on notice again however.

BigDave · Nov 5, 2011

FMCDH said:
With Kirkland, I have no idea. I didn't even realize they still had contrary wording on their books until today when I started confirming codes for that post.

I have notified both Bothell and Lake Forest Park directly at their city council meetings several times, but not since the new ruling. Its worth putting them on notice again however.

I would recommend if you are going to attend and speak at a City Council Meeting to have everything written up and make copies so you can hand them out and asked them to come into compliance with State Law.
With today's financial troubles in most Cities and Counties, do they really want to loose money on issue they have no chance of winning and it could lead to lawsuits which would be a greater issue at hand.

One must follow through as well, checking in on the City Council Meeting Agendas and Attending Their Meetings.

FMCDH · Nov 5, 2011

BigDave said:
I would recommend if you are going to attend and speak at a City Council Meeting to have everything written up and make copies so you can hand them out and asked them to come into compliance with State Law.
With today's financial troubles in most Cities and Counties, do they really want to loose money on issue they have no chance of winning and it could lead to lawsuits which would be a greater issue at hand.

One must follow through as well, checking in on the City Council Meeting Agendas and Attending Their Meetings.

For Bothell and Lake Forest Park, that's all been done, but up to this point their city attorneys are stone walling.

They don't seem to be taking the lawsuit threats seriously, and frankly, they don't really have to since there is no punishment for keeping it on the books. Their PD already knows that the ordinance is unlawful, so no one is going to enforce it.

Like I said, it cant hurt to remind them and bring up the new court ruling.

slapmonkay · Nov 6, 2011

it is unlawful for any person to possess a firearm in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises

Looks like Kirkland has several violations they need to be informed of. The part of it above seems to also be over reaching RCW 9.41.290

I don't live there but could probably write a letter up since my town and county comply.

NavyMike · Nov 6, 2011

Kirkland

slapmonkay said:
Looks like Kirkland has several violations they need to be informed of. The part of it above seems to also be over reaching RCW 9.41.290

I don't live there but could probably write a letter up since my town and county comply.

Kirkland is aware. A rewrite of the relevant sections has been approved by their Public Safety Committee and goes before the full council later this month with a recommendation to accept the changes to the muni code.

It is expected that they will simply adopt the RCWs.

NavyMike · Nov 6, 2011

Redmond

slapmonkay said:
Looks like Kirkland has several violations they need to be informed of. The part of it above seems to also be over reaching RCW 9.41.290

I don't live there but could probably write a letter up since my town and county comply.

"it is unlawful for any person to possess a firearm in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises"

Redmond has the same in its code.

I wrote to the Redmond Mayor, this week, and the city's prosecuting attorney promised to look into it.
They changed their park code in 2009 to come into compliance, so I do not expect any head winds on this.

BigDave · Nov 6, 2011

"it is unlawful for any person to possess a firearm in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises"

A little tid-bit on this, is that the WSLCB (Washington State Liquor Control Board) are the ones who designate where the restrictions are and that of course is at the bar.

A couple of years ago I addressed an issue with a Cafe in Easton WA where they posted a sign at the front door, granted they had a bar which was designated by WSLCB, long story short after I contacted WSLCB they had to take down their signage that was designated to be at entrances of the BAR.

If by chance they were able to talk WSLCB in changing the location then they could not serve people under the age of 21 in their restaurant.

They could have just put up a different sign and be within the law but I was not going to tell them.

RCW 9.41.300(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age;

amlevin · Nov 6, 2011

Marysville, Wa fixed their park code in 2010

6.82.070 Weapons.
It is unlawful to shoot or fire any firearm, air gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot in any park; provided, this section shall not apply to law enforcement personnel or to department of parks and recreation employees acting pursuant to and in accordance with rules and regulations of the director; and provided further, that this section shall not apply to participants in a parks and recreation program which, as a component of the program, includes the use of such weapons; and provided further, that this section shall not apply to hunters accessing areas designated for purposes of hunting in accordance with Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife regulations. (Ord. 2829 § 1, 2010).

Snohomish County also in 2010

22.16.090 Weapons and fireworks.
(1) No person shall possess any crossbow, bow and arrow, air or gas weapon, slingshot, fireworks or
explosive in any county park except at times and in areas specifically designated by the parks division and
posted for such use. No person shall discharge a crossbow, bow and arrow, air or gas weapon, slingshot,
fireworks or explosive in, into, or across any county park except at times and in areas specifically designated by
the parks division and posted for such use.
(2) This section is based, in part, on the apparent preemptive effect of RCW 9.41.290 on county
authority to prohibit possession of firearms in county parks.(§ 28 of Res. adopted April 22, 1974; Amended Ord. 93-066, Aug. 18, 1993, Eff date Aug. 28, 1993; Amended
Ord. 98-076, § 28, Aug. 19, 1998, Eff date Aug. 31, 1998; Amended by Ord. 10-016, April 21, 2010, Eff date
May 15, 2010).

Everett apparently has complied since 2000

9.06.070 Weapons.
It is unlawful to shoot or fire any firearm, air gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot in any park; provided, this section shall not apply to law enforcement personnel or to department of parks and recreation employees acting pursuant to and in accordance with rules and regulations of the parks director; and provided further, that this section shall not apply to participants in a parks and recreation program which, as a component of the program, includes the use of such weapons; and provided further, that this section shall not apply to hunters accessing park areas designated for the purposes of hunting, in accordance with Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife regulations. Hunters are required to keep gun actions open and unloaded while on city property. Violation of any of the provisions of this section is a misdemeanor, and may be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment not to exceed ninety days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. (Ord. 2442-00 § 16, 2000: prior code § 14.08.080)

Now if we could just get the Snohomish County Council off their "duffs" and build the Shooting Park they've been talking about for over 20 years.

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