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Good question a friend asked me about gun crimes?

MikeTheGreek

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
590
Location
Northville, Michigan
I was explaining to my friend how carrying a handgun actually makes everybody safer, and that most crimes are definitely not committed by people who legally carry.

She reminded me of Virginia Tech, which was a pretty good point. But when I think about it, Virginia Tech is the only gun crime that I've ever heard of, or read about, where the perp was legally carrying a handgun.

So my question is, was he even supposed to be carrying? also, are gun crimes by legally carrying citizens actually as low as I'm thinking?
 

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
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Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Crucial Point

The term "gun crime" was coined by gun-controllers aka anti-gunners.

Murder is murder. Aggravated assault is aggravated assault.

Gun crimes are things like buying a gun for someone you know is not allowed to possess one. Or, carrying one concealed with a permit.

Otherwise, guns are inanimate objects and cannot commit a crime. They cannot possibly have a causal relationship to a crime.

By accepting the anti-gunner's terminology--"gun crime"--you will find you have already conceded half the argument--that guns are the problem. And, that crimes committed with a gun are somehow special and deserve special attention just because a gun was used, rather than a knife, bludgeon, or poison. This plays right into the anti-gunner's hands.


Oh, forgive my manners. Welcome to Open Carry Dot Org!!
 
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MikeTheGreek

Regular Member
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Mar 29, 2011
Messages
590
Location
Northville, Michigan
Okay, I realize "gun crimes" probably wasn't the best wording. I was just wondering how many "crimes" are committed using "guns" by people who legally carry on an every day basis.

It's always been something I've wondered about, because growing up around Detroit, every crime involving a gun that I've ever seen was by felons, gangbangers, etc.

And since for some reason...a bunch of people think that every day people who carry guns (Teachers, lawyers, etc) will just take out their handgun and randomly start shooting people, I was just wondering if that statistic is as low as I've always thought?

By no means do I think guns are the problem, I think they're the best solutions to most things, without even having to be un-holstered. I was just asking because a friend of mine kept bugging me about it and I honestly had no idea what to say to her.
 

Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
I was explaining to my friend how carrying a handgun actually makes everybody safer, and that most crimes are definitely not committed by people who legally carry.

She reminded me of Virginia Tech, which was a pretty good point. But when I think about it, Virginia Tech is the only gun crime that I've ever heard of, or read about, where the perp was legally carrying a handgun.

So my question is, was he even supposed to be carrying? also, are gun crimes by legally carrying citizens actually as low as I'm thinking?

He wasn't legally carrying. Nobody there could legally carry.
 

MikeTheGreek

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
590
Location
Northville, Michigan
Thank you, these facts are actually very helpful. Being from Canada my knowledge on the subject isn't very much, so reading the 5.1 will help me answer a lot of questions that I'm asked when I start open carrying In a few weeks.
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP Okay, I realize "gun crimes" probably wasn't the best wording. I was just wondering how many "crimes" are committed using "guns" by people who legally carry on an every day basis...

Its still an artificial distinction. Whether .001% of crime is committed by legal carriers, or 10%, disarming good people because of the behavior of bad people is completely unjustifiable.

At one time there were very few gun laws in this country. I'm betting that most crimes committed with a gun were committed by a person who could legally possess or carry.

All it means is that: the higher percentage of legally carried guns used to commit crime, the higher the need for non-criminals to be able to defend themselves.
 

Heartless_Conservative

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
269
Location
, Oregon, USA
VT was (and still is) a legal gun free zone. Also, the perpetrator of the shootings was NOT a holder of a valid CHL (or whatever Virginia calls it, I'm from Oregon so I'm not sure), so ANY concealed carry (even off campus) would have been illegal for him.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
Neither has my gun, nor any gun I have ever met, ever committed a crime. Never even heard of one.

Crimes are committed by people - bad people, criminals. They ignore the more than adequate laws already on the books. Whether the Va Tech shooter had a permit or not is not remotely relevant - he didn't.

What is a crime IMHO are all of the GFZs - they, at the direction of our legislators and school officials, provide the defenseless targets for those desiring instant notoriety.

It is in our power to reverse this trend, to take the easy/free opportunity away from these crazed individuals. We do so by responsibly exercising our 2A rights and pushing our elected officials to do the Right thing. The ballot box is a very big hammer.

It is a battle that we must win - it is for the children ...... and the wives,ourselves and our friends.
 
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Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
Neither has my gun nor any gun I have ever met ever committed a crime. Never even heard of one.

Ow w w w w!! God, it hurts to try to read that. Much less extract the meaning.

Do you mind using sentence structure others can actually read?

:):p
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
I was explaining to my friend how carrying a handgun actually makes everybody safer, and that most crimes are definitely not committed by people who legally carry.

She reminded me of Virginia Tech, which was a pretty good point. But when I think about it, Virginia Tech is the only gun crime that I've ever heard of, or read about, where the perp was legally carrying a handgun.

So my question is, was he even supposed to be carrying? also, are gun crimes by legally carrying citizens actually as low as I'm thinking?

No, he was not legally carrying on campus. He violated the law before he shot anyone or at anyone. While he might have legally purchased the firearm, he had reached a mental state where he was no longer in legal possession of a firearm due to mental incompetence.

And as has been said a "gun" crime does not exist.
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
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Valhalla
Ow w w w w!! God, it hurts to try to read that. Much less extract the meaning.

Do you mind using sentence structure others can actually read?

:):p

I went back and put the commas in place after my mission was accomplished. :p

Made you read it twice. Neener, neener.
 

REALteach4u

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
428
Location
Spfld, Mo.
I have to agree with Crucial's point here. Bad people who are hell-bent on breaking the law and hurting people are going to find the means, time, and location of doing so no matter what laws are thrown in front of them. If you need some great statistics on gun related violence, I have the book from the DOJ on Violent Encounters for LE training. I promise you, there are some eye-opening stats in there for those who have never been in LE in some manner. Like this common sense item: How many LE encounters are armed encounters? 100% because the officer arrives with HIS firearm.

Remember, the Fed has the Federal Safe Schools Act that is supposed to prevent things like Virginia Tech from happening. That particular law worked quite well now didn't it?

It's a clear illustration that the ONLY way to stop violent crime from happening IS an armed responsible public because criminals simply refuse to obey the law, which means the only people gun-control laws actually restrict are the law abiding. Even with a responsible armed public, nothing is 100% guaranteed.

Our lawmakers Nation-wide know full well that new criminal laws only make it more difficult for the law-abiding to abide by the law. It's all about control and usually those laws won't be applied to those making them. Case in point: Claire McCaskill, Missouri Senator, who billed the US Treasury for business flights on a plane she and her husband owned, she also failed to pay personal property taxes on it claiming that she just found out she had to pay personal property tax on it; it's called tax evasion and fraud folks. I guess she thinks we're all too stupid to know she's a 4th Generation Missourian and that she's lived here most of if not her entire life. BTW, she's being allowed to pay it and isn't being charged criminally like she should be.

Why is that relevant? It illustrates that people with the intent will break the law in light of knowing it's illegal.
 
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DevinWKuska

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
300
Location
Spanaway
I was explaining to my friend how carrying a handgun actually makes everybody safer, and that most crimes are definitely not committed by people who legally carry.

She reminded me of Virginia Tech, which was a pretty good point. But when I think about it, Virginia Tech is the only gun crime that I've ever heard of, or read about, where the perp was legally carrying a handgun.

So my question is, was he even supposed to be carrying? also, are gun crimes by legally carrying citizens actually as low as I'm thinking?

The shooting of the AZ senator ring a bell? Both of his firearms were purchased legally, as well as legally possesing hi-cap mags. I would also like to point out that someone at the shooting WAS armed and was just to chicken s*** to draw and fire! Dont carry if your not up to pulling the trigger when the chips are down!
 

Tawnos

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Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
The shooting of the AZ senator ring a bell? Both of his firearms were purchased legally, as well as legally possesing hi-cap mags. I would also like to point out that someone at the shooting WAS armed and was just to chicken s*** to draw and fire! Dont carry if your not up to pulling the trigger when the chips are down!

Clearly you are unaware about which you speak
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Valhalla
The shooting of the AZ senator ring a bell? Both of his firearms were purchased legally, as well as legally possesing hi-cap mags. I would also like to point out that someone at the shooting WAS armed and was just to chicken s*** to draw and fire! Dont carry if your not up to pulling the trigger when the chips are down!

That is a bit harsh I think.

At least one gentleman was armed and elected not to shoot. Good thing too because the person that had the gun then was another good guy.
 

AmbushBug

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Las Vegas, NV
The shooting of the AZ senator ring a bell? Both of his firearms were purchased legally, as well as legally possesing hi-cap mags. I would also like to point out that someone at the shooting WAS armed and was just to chicken s*** to draw and fire! Dont carry if your not up to pulling the trigger when the chips are down!

I, for one, don't hear any bell. Jared Loughner was already an "habitual user of drugs" when he purchased the guns; therefore they were not purchased legally; that's one of the questions on the Form 4473.

The other armed person was too far from the action - if I recall correctly he was well inside the supermarket - and by the time he got outside to see what was going on, it was over and he did the correct thing by keeping his weapon holstered.
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
The shooting of the AZ senator ring a bell? Both of his firearms were purchased legally, as well as legally possesing hi-cap mags. I would also like to point out that someone at the shooting WAS armed and was just to chicken s*** to draw and fire! Dont carry if your not up to pulling the trigger when the chips are down!


No, Both AZ senators are unwounded. Actually dipwad lied on his 4473's so his firearms were not bought legally. It was that his Two disqualifiers had not been taken notice of "Officially" and therefore did not show up in the NCIS/AzCIS records check.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I, for one, don't hear any bell. Jared Loughner was already an "habitual user of drugs" when he purchased the guns; therefore they were not purchased legally; that's one of the questions on the Form 4473.

The other armed person was too far from the action - if I recall correctly he was well inside the supermarket - and by the time he got outside to see what was going on, it was over and he did the correct thing by keeping his weapon holstered.

And folks willing to unlawfully shoot a congressman, a judge, and others, ain't going to follow paperwork laws!
 
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