Videotaping a T-stop and open carrying

BaconMan · May 23, 2011

I have no problem with someone videotaping a t-stop, however, if anyone places their body near a t-stop while carrying a firearm and the officer has no idea who is the person with the firearm, that individual will be considered a threat until everything is resolved.

The various comments about interfering with the t-stop, understandable, however, if an officer is aware someone has a weapon, they do not know, and the officer is conducting a t-stop....one of the most dangerous activities in law enforcement....I am just saying that people should understand that they more than likely will be detained until the matter is sorted out. Do not be offended or get upset by the detention.

I do know of areas where the officers have citizens that act as their back-up and that type of thing happens quite a bit, but if the officer does not know the person(s), folks should be understanding.

Kirbinator · May 23, 2011

What about the implied lethality of a club sandwich left on the seat of my car on a hot day? Should I be disen-sandwiched for officer safety?

sudden valley gunner · May 23, 2011

BaconMan said:
I have no problem with someone videotaping a t-stop, however, if anyone places their body near a t-stop while carrying a firearm and the officer has no idea who is the person with the firearm, that individual will be considered a threat until everything is resolved.

The various comments about interfering with the t-stop, understandable, however, if an officer is aware someone has a weapon, they do not know, and the officer is conducting a t-stop....one of the most dangerous activities in law enforcement....I am just saying that people should understand that they more than likely will be detained until the matter is sorted out. Do not be offended or get upset by the detention.

I do know of areas where the officers have citizens that act as their back-up and that type of thing happens quite a bit, but if the officer does not know the person(s), folks should be understanding.

Except you are leaving out the studies that show criminals and those with ill intent conceal. So they are somehow "safer" from their point of view if they put 2 millimeters of cotton or poly blend over their weapon? It's not very logical. They are letting themselves get worked up over personal biases.

Venator · May 23, 2011

BaconMan said:
I have no problem with someone videotaping a t-stop, however, if anyone places their body near a t-stop while carrying a firearm and the officer has no idea who is the person with the firearm, that individual will be considered a threat until everything is resolved.

The various comments about interfering with the t-stop, understandable, however, if an officer is aware someone has a weapon, they do not know, and the officer is conducting a t-stop....one of the most dangerous activities in law enforcement....I am just saying that people should understand that they more than likely will be detained until the matter is sorted out. Do not be offended or get upset by the detention.

I do know of areas where the officers have citizens that act as their back-up and that type of thing happens quite a bit, but if the officer does not know the person(s), folks should be understanding.

Spoken like a cop, BACONman.

sudden valley gunner · May 23, 2011

Venator said:
Spoken like a cop, BACONman.

Oh man you almost made me spew my coffee out on my monitor!!!! :lol:

Fallschirjmäger · May 23, 2011

BaconMan said:
I have no problem with someone videotaping a t-stop, however, if anyone places their body near a t-stop while carrying a firearm and the officer has no idea who is the person with the firearm, that individual will be considered a threat until everything is resolved.

The various comments about interfering with the t-stop, understandable, however, if an officer is aware someone has a weapon, they do not know, and the officer is conducting a t-stop....one of the most dangerous activities in law enforcement....I am just saying that people should understand that they more than likely will be detained until the matter is sorted out. Do not be offended or get upset by the detention.

I do know of areas where the officers have citizens that act as their back-up and that type of thing happens quite a bit, but if the officer does not know the person(s), folks should be understanding.

Given that the bearing of arms is a perfectly legal activity for the vast majority of the adult population in the United States --
What if 98% of the population were to be under arms?

Should the officers still react to "someone they don't know" by detaining 98% of the population? Just because 98% of the population doesn't, does not mean that 98% of the population couldn't.

What if there are officers from another precinct? another department? another county? and the officer doesn't "know them", should they be detained as well, or is that tin badge on the chest some sort of magic talisman attesting to the wearer's trustability?[sic]

Do we even want to get into the fact that anyone, even close to a 't-stop' might be (gasp!!), concealing a weapon and the officer doesn't know them[/]? Shouldn't the officer detain and question anyone even remotely close in case they are carrying a weapon that may potentially be used to injure the officer? The officer doesn't know who MIGHT be carrying and he doesn't know them so they might be dangerous!!

Any yeah, I think we've all twigged to the BACONman nickname.

BaconMan · May 25, 2011

I know I will catch flak for this, but cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns. In society today, most people are unarmed and it will take a bit before the OCing viewpoint is fully understood by the LE community. Laws are there for what people cannot do, not for what they are permitted to do and during the early years of this country, people went from carrying weapons to not carrying weapons. This was not done to stop crime, it was done because folks saw people who carried weapons as uncivilized. Therefore, communities had city codes against carrying weapons.

Now, folks want to go back to carrying weapons....the LE community needs time to adjust....I know....spoken like a cop.....:dude:

Fallschirjmäger · May 25, 2011

BaconMan said:
I know I will catch flak for this, but cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns. In society today, most people are unarmed and it will take a bit before the OCing viewpoint is fully understood by the LE community. Laws are there for what people cannot do, not for what they are permitted to do and during the early years of this country, people went from carrying weapons to not carrying weapons. This was not done to stop crime, it was done because folks saw people who carried weapons as uncivilized. Therefore, communities had city codes against carrying weapons.

Now, folks want to go back to carrying weapons....the LE community needs time to adjust....I know....spoken like a cop.....:dude:

If cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens carrying firearms, then why are there so many reports and videos, of officers having issues with citizens carrying firearms?

MR Redenck · May 25, 2011

I wouldnt think it would be a good idea for anyone to walk up and video someone getting a traffic stop, really not a good idea while carry a gun. "What that cop suppose to think".

If she did it from a distance, fine. Just dont get involved.
We have seen a lot of good and bad LE videos over the years. I would hate for people to stop doing it. Just dont get in the way and stand clear. Im not a cop, I wouldnt like some woman following me around with a camera either. If they did it from a distance, I dont think I would give a crap.

JamesCanby · May 25, 2011

MR Redenck said:
I wouldnt think it would be a good idea for anyone to walk up and video someone getting a traffic stop, really not a good idea while carry a gun. "What that cop suppose to think".
If she did it from a distance, fine. Just dont get involved.
We have seen a lot of good and bad LE videos over the years. I would hate for people to stop doing it. Just dont get in the way and stand clear. Im not a cop, I wouldnt like some woman following me around with a camera either. If they did it from a distance, I dont think I would give a crap.

And what, in your estimation, should that "distance" be in order not to be "in the way?" Ten feet? Fifty feet? Across the street?

So long as I am not interfering with the officer's activities, it should not matter how close or far away I am. Reason should prevail, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I am openly carrying.

MR Redenck · May 25, 2011

BaconMan said:
I know I will catch flak for this, but cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns. In society today, most people are unarmed and it will take a bit before the OCing viewpoint is fully understood by the LE community. Laws are there for what people cannot do, not for what they are permitted to do and during the early years of this country, people went from carrying weapons to not carrying weapons. This was not done to stop crime, it was done because folks saw people who carried weapons as uncivilized. Therefore, communities had city codes against carrying weapons.

Now, folks want to go back to carrying weapons....the LE community needs time to adjust....I know....spoken like a cop.....:dude:

Hey, go walk back and forth in front of a California PD station with a hidden camera. Be nice, dress well, hide you video recorder, and make your gun visible.
I want to see the video when you heal up. :shocker:
LOL

BaconMan · May 25, 2011

If cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens carrying firearms, then why are there so many reports and videos, of officers having issues with citizens carrying firearms?

I stated, "cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns"....people carrying guns openly is different...

Folks that are OCing are going against the norms of today's society, therefore, folks have to continue to educate LE, not be confrontational with LE. That is why I would suggest to people that OC be patient with LEOs they encounter, because even those in LE (who also come from society) have to learn to adjust to the average citizen carrying a firearm openly. I would not tell a person to put away their firearm, if they are legally possessing and carrying a firearm, I would tell people to be patient with LE until the mindset of society has had time to change. Although many folks do not believe it, however, as society goes, so goes the LE community.....our LEOs reflect us and our community beliefs.

I would just ask those that OC to be patient and continue to educate LEOs in a positive way, not as a confrontational group or force that is going to stick it to the man....those that do will continue to....:banghead:....those that realize LE do not know every gun law on the books and talk with LEOs, those folks will eventually come to understand that LEOs are regular people that need to learn just like the rest of society.....

BaconMan · May 25, 2011

MR Redenck said:
Hey, go walk back and forth in front of a California PD station with a hidden camera. Be nice, dress well, hide you video recorder, and make your gun visible.
I want to see the video when you heal up. :shocker:
LOL

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! The cops in Cali are not that bad...I take that back....not all the cops in Cali are like that.....LOL

JamesCanby · May 25, 2011

BaconMan said:
If cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens carrying firearms, then why are there so many reports and videos, of officers having issues with citizens carrying firearms?

I stated, "cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns"....people carrying guns openly is different...

Folks that are OCing are going against the norms of today's society, therefore, folks have to continue to educate LE, not be confrontational with LE. That is why I would suggest to people that OC be patient with LEOs they encounter, because even those in LE (who also come from society) have to learn to adjust to the average citizen carrying a firearm openly. I would not tell a person to put away their firearm, if they are legally possessing and carrying a firearm, I would tell people to be patient with LE until the mindset of society has had time to change. Although many folks do not believe it, however, as society goes, so goes the LE community.....our LEOs reflect us and our community beliefs.

I would just ask those that OC to be patient and continue to educate LEOs in a positive way, not as a confrontational group or force that is going to stick it to the man....those that do will continue to....:banghead:....those that realize LE do not know every gun law on the books and talk with LEOs, those folks will eventually come to understand that LEOs are regular people that need to learn just like the rest of society.....

In the 50s and 60s African-Americans went "against the norms" of their then-current society, and in many cases the police acted to enforce the 'norms.' If you had been living in that society back then, would you have counseled the African-Americans "to be patient and continue to educate LEOs in a positive way, not as a confrontational group?"

Rights are rights, no matter the issue.

MR Redenck · May 25, 2011

JamesCanby said:
And what, in your estimation, should that "distance" be in order not to be "in the way?" Ten feet? Fifty feet? Across the street?

So long as I am not interfering with the officer's activities, it should not matter how close or far away I am. Reason should prevail, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I am openly carrying.

You can follow the cop around like a shadow for all I care, just post you video so I can see what happens. :lol:
If it were me, I think I would stay clear of the cops effort to address whatever it is thet might be doing. Cross the street, around the corner, or a little was down the sidewalk. Im the kind of person who would think, " What if were me getting video taped by some moron who thinks they need to stand in my way while im working". If you want to tape a police encounter involving someone else, just stay out of the cops way. Being a PITA wont help anything. Im all in favor of a persons right the take a picture of video, but dont ruin it for everyone else.
Im not a cop, if someone were to walk up to me and follow me around with a video recorder, then you can bet at some point the cops will be showing up

. Keep your distance and there shouldnt be a problem.

sudden valley gunner · May 26, 2011

BaconMan said:
If cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens carrying firearms, then why are there so many reports and videos, of officers having issues with citizens carrying firearms?

I stated, "cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns"....people carrying guns openly is different...

Folks that are OCing are going against the norms of today's society, therefore, folks have to continue to educate LE, not be confrontational with LE. That is why I would suggest to people that OC be patient with LEOs they encounter, because even those in LE (who also come from society) have to learn to adjust to the average citizen carrying a firearm openly. I would not tell a person to put away their firearm, if they are legally possessing and carrying a firearm, I would tell people to be patient with LE until the mindset of society has had time to change. Although many folks do not believe it, however, as society goes, so goes the LE community.....our LEOs reflect us and our community beliefs.

I would just ask those that OC to be patient and continue to educate LEOs in a positive way, not as a confrontational group or force that is going to stick it to the man....those that do will continue to....:banghead:....those that realize LE do not know every gun law on the books and talk with LEOs, those folks will eventually come to understand that LEOs are regular people that need to learn just like the rest of society.....

I am just glad we have an officer on here who is willing to talk about it rationally, most cops that come on have pretty thin skins and are offended quickly.

You are right I here many cops talk about gun rights and how people should have them.

The problem with being nice and educating LEO's is like the parent you hear in the supermarket telling their kid 300 times "honey don't do that". Sometimes they just don't get it until a more firmer approach is took.

I watched the video where my city was told not to bother open carry and how open carry was illegal. And the case where they arrested a man was dropped. Every cop in town knew this yet they illegally detained me and arrested me twice in one day. It took the threat of a lawsuit and a small settlement to let them know I was serious.

Interesting thing is they acknowledged it was legal but told me they were going to continue to give me the same treatment I got that day if I continued to OC.

eye95 · May 26, 2011

BaconMan said:
...I stated, "cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns"....people carrying guns openly is different...

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

That is precisely the problem! You, as best we can tell a LEO, are flat out saying that "carrying guns openly is different" from "law abiding citizens with guns."

Where OC is legal, which is almost everywhere, "carrying guns openly" is legal, meaning that these OCers are "law abiding citizens with guns."

Examine your axioms.

MR Redenck · May 26, 2011

eye95 said:
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

That is precisely the problem! You, as best we can tell a LEO, are flat out saying that "carrying guns openly is different" from "law abiding citizens with guns."

Where OC is legal, which is almost everywhere, "carrying guns openly" is legal, meaning that these OCers are "law abiding citizens with guns."

Examine your axioms.

Man, Man oh man!!!

wrightme · May 26, 2011

BaconMan said:
If cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens carrying firearms, then why are there so many reports and videos, of officers having issues with citizens carrying firearms?

I stated, "cops do not have issues with law abiding citizens and guns"....people carrying guns openly is different...:

No, it is NOT "different." It is simply not common enough to be seen as benign by you and your ilk.

You mention "societal norms." LE are supposed to enforce laws of society, not norms they feel should be followed.

Sabotage70 · May 26, 2011

I don't know. She is a menacing looking woman.

After all, if the police have nothing to hide they should hide nothing.

Videotaping a T-stop and open carrying

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