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Vandalia LEO Encounter

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
--snip--

Unfortunately, as noted, nerves get the best of us sometimes. It would be nice to have a Citizen's School where these kinds of encounters could be drilled, with some level of pressure/stress introduced, to get us over the psychological nervousness that these kinds of encounters induce.

Would prefer a user's school to a Citizen's school :p

Inside reference to Virgina posters/users - the latter being an activist and excellent researcher, the former being my choice of the go-to legal council when the need arises. Yes that is a personal endorsement.
 

William Fisher

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
238
Location
Oxford, Ohio
With certian stories that pop up from time to time such as the one from Hamilton last month I hit myself in the head because it makes it that much harder for me to feel not looked down upon because of my age


Rcall, I've lived in Hamilton most of my adult life and I missed that post. Could you direct me to it please?

Thank You.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
...I know most juvenile convictions go in the shredder...

In Ohio, I believe your juvenile record will remain until you request expungement. If you don't have it expunged and you are charged with a crime in the future, the pre-sentencing investigation will find your juvenile record.
 

stargateranch

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
100
Location
West Jordan
The sound.

The wait is over......
This is the link to the video. I have posted the video exactly as it was given to me by the city. I did not edit the sound out at the beginning, they did.

http://youtu.be/sWoVrkSpE58

Heads up on the sound the Panasonic cameras that most agencies use record video constantly. When the camera is activated it goes back 15 second or 30 depending on settings. The sound is not recorded constant so when the sounds starts that's when the recorder was activated. The video prior to the sound is just that constant recording without sound. It looks like the recorder was activated late but not edited.

Sucks you had a bad experience, I hope they remedy the mistake.
 

F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
941
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983

42 USC § 1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

Throw in 42 USC § 1985 - CONSPIRACY TO INTERFERE WITH CIVIL RIGHTS and include the good sergeant as well
Add in 42 USC § 1986 - ACTION FOR NEGLECT TO PREVENT against the shift supervisor, and every administrative person up to and including the mayor and city attorney.
 

ed2276

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
366
Location
Las Vegas,NV
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983

42 USC § 1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

Does any plaintiff ever win a 1983 lawsuit?
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Throw in 42 USC § 1985 - CONSPIRACY TO INTERFERE WITH CIVIL RIGHTS and include the good sergeant as well
Add in 42 USC § 1986 - ACTION FOR NEGLECT TO PREVENT against the shift supervisor, and every administrative person up to and including the mayor and city attorney.

Apparently we have a second volunteer willing to put-up $20 grand to get this started.

Would it not be a better goal to get the state to train all these officers in the law/Constitution.
 

half_life1052

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
270
Location
Austin, TX
Heads up on the sound the Panasonic cameras that most agencies use record video constantly. When the camera is activated it goes back 15 second or 30 depending on settings. The sound is not recorded constant so when the sounds starts that's when the recorder was activated. The video prior to the sound is just that constant recording without sound. It looks like the recorder was activated late but not edited.

Sucks you had a bad experience, I hope they remedy the mistake.

Not that I am doubting you but if the camera system has a buffer, the audio should already synced with the video in the buffer. I work on two video systems that are designed for transit use and they both operate this way. To my way of thinking, if they work as you describe, it would raise many questions as to the validity of the recording. Both of the systems I describe have anti editing features built in although both will make a plain jane "not ready to go to court" avi or mpeg.

To the original poster: If you need help lifting audio out of that mess, let me know. I do this often for my agency and have software+experience if needed.

Here are the two systems I am referring to :
http://www.avt-usa.com/ Apollo Video Systems
http://www.safetyvision.com/ Safety Vision
 
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RCall

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
113
Location
Miami County Ohio
Have you done a follow-up records request for the full video, etc.?

At this point in time I have had a small development in the matter, but nothing I can discuss publicly at this time.

I will post more information when I can.
 

RCall

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
113
Location
Miami County Ohio
Approximately two weeks ago a lieutenant from the department called and left me a voice mail. In the message he stated that he had been made aware of the incident and had seen the video online and also saw there was, "Quite a bit of discussion on the incident." on this forum. He also stated that it looked like I was looking for more information on the issue. We assume he was referring to the fact that we didn't believe I was given the whole tape. We decided it was in my best interest at that point in time not to return the call because we were still unsure of what action we were going to take and we believe there might of been a hidden motive to the call.

Secondly, this past Monday I met with the city mayor and city manager in the council chambers before the council meeting. When the mayor entered before the meeting started she immediately approached me. She asked me what my business was at the meeting and I informed her of why I was in attendance. She conveyed to me that the city would much rather handle the situation in another setting. She introduced me to the city manager who invited me to contact him the next day (Tuesday) regarding the issue. I departed without addressing the council publicly. Later that night I recognized the only other person in attendance as a newspaper reporter, I believe.

Yesterday I did contact the city manager. In the conversation we covered several topics relative to the issue at hand. He stated that he had been previously made aware of the incident and it was handled improperly. Also, he apologized for the actions of the officer, and relayed that the city had not had any prior incidents regarding open carry. The manager also confirmed that the officer who initiated the stop had been advised that the issue was not handled correctly. I informed him that the training of officers in the matter of open carry was all I desired out of the issue. The city has also passed down new training and protocol through the ranks so all officers on the department know how to handle open carry and that this was a learning experience for the city, he affirmed to me. I asked the city manager if training records would reflect what he had just informed me. He declared that they would, and gave me the contact information for the chief of police so when those records become public I can contact him.

In the conference I also inquired about the cruiser cam video and audio. After consulting the police chief on how the cameras work, he told me that there are two ways to activate the camera/audio. One is when the officer activates the emergency light bar equipped on the vehicle. The second is that there is a button somewhere on the officers belt which can be pressed to activate the camera. It was after the officer cuffed me that he activated the camera from his persons. I found it strange that the officer didn't find it necessary to activate the camera until that point. The city manager affirmed that I had indeed received the entire footage of the event.

At this point in time, as long as the training records do indicate that training in the sensitivity of open carry have become standard protocol at the department, we feel satisfied with the outcome of the matter.



LOOK I learned about paragraphs!!!!!
I know there might be some commas out of place though.
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
--snip--

At this point in time, as long as the training records do indicate that training in the sensitivity of open carry have become standard protocol at the department, we feel satisfied with the outcome of the matter.



LOOK I learned about paragraphs!!!!!
I know there might be some commas out of place though.

You just earned 2 "atta boys" :D

Good job!
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
...At this point in time, as long as the training records do indicate that training in the sensitivity of open carry have become standard protocol at the department, we feel satisfied with the outcome of the matter...
Nice work.

It's easy for them to say what they have/will do, but as you indicated, it's necessary to confirm the accuracy of their statements.

I suggest that unless their training indicates ALL of the following with regard to OC, it's not complete:

1) Open carry is legal

2) Consensual conversations are fine, but a non-consensual or Terry stop is not justified unless the officer can reasonably conclude (and articulate) that a crime has or is about to occur

3) The taking of an individual's firearm is a mark of a non-consensual stop

4) An officer can ask for ID, but not demand it, nor can any other identifying information be demanded unless the officer can reasonably conclude (and articulate) that a crime has or is about to occur

5) Threats of possible charges of inducing panic and/or disorderly conduct are not acceptable


It's late, so if I missed something, please add to or correct my list.



...LOOK I learned about paragraphs!!!!!...
Nice work on them too!
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Did the city manager have all that stuff he stated to you, given to you in writing and signed by he, the mayor and the chief of police?

Did you record the conversation?

....adjusting my tinfoil hat....it IS government ya know. Don't trust them one iota.
 
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