NVFAC membership meeting

Bmeierholtz · Feb 25, 2013

I refuse to be one of those myself. I just feel my money will be better spent in a different venue is all. I honestly have the feeling that if I do join them, or donate, that just maybe the money would not be used properly. Nothing is free, and I am aware that it takes money to run an organization such as this. With that said, I will continue my search for what I feel is a better run organization. For those that are involved with them, do not be offended by how I feel, after all, that is just my opinion.

varminter22 · Feb 25, 2013

As from the start of this NVFAC debate, I've been unable to understand. There has been anti-NVFAC rhetoric since day one.

NVFAC has been forthcoming. "Growing pains"? Sure. Not yet even 1.5 years old.

Much ado about nothing was made of the IRS determination of 501(C)4 status. That whole debate was irrelevant. One does NOT even need any 501(C) status. NVFAC has been a Nevada non-profit corporation since day one - duly filed with the Nevada SecState. But NVFAC did indeed seek - and finally obtained (after several month delay by the IRS) - federal 501(C)4 status. Wasn't required, but we did. Yet, somehow it was our fault the IRS was not speedy enough in making their determination.

Yet NVFAC has been engaged. And now has a full time (for at least a couple of months) paid lobbyist. (We still hope to raise funds to hire the lobbyist for the last two months of the session.)

NVFAC does not oppose efforts/agenda of this OC group. Yet some "badmouth" NVFAC. And yet again want to do a "takeover."

I'm told that most gun groups in Clark County have failed within the first year due to infighting.

Can we not agree we're all in this together??

We can argue till we're blue in the face about the Clark County Shooting Complex. The fact is, shooters wanted it - NOT the County Commissioners. And it is NOT NVFAC's baby. It belongs to the county. Sure, our current NVFAC President was involved in the shooting park's planning, etc. But is no longer affiliated with it. Why can't we fight the good battle TOGETHER to repeal Clark County's draconian (and unconstitutional, in my opinion) handgun registration scheme?? Et al, etc.

We all have a lot on our collective plate.

Thanks for the great remarks about Stillwater Firearms Ass'n. I've turned over my position as Chairman of its Legislative Action Cmte to Sam McGuire.

Vegassteve · Feb 25, 2013

varminter22 said:
As from the start of this NVFAC debate, I've been unable to understand. There has been anti-NVFAC rhetoric since day one.

NVFAC has been forthcoming. "Growing pains"? Sure. Not yet even 1.5 years old.

Let me answer some of these questions.

First the park. Some of us here do not wish our money going to a group that infringes on our rights. That group in this case is Clark Co. Would you have held the meeting at a complex that the brady group ran? Pretty sure you wouldnt have. Yet you are asking us to fight the battle and then giving our money to the very group(county) we fight.

Second a take over. No one is advocating a full take over. One member though would have liked to have put forth motions to be voted on. And that member followed the by laws to do so. The president though would not allow it. He made up his own rules. So now it seems we must go a different route. Getting signatures and forcing a vote. I am not even confident that will work. Why? Because who is to say the president just doesnt make up a new rule?

Third in the 1.5 years some of us have sent issues to the group to be looked at and in some cases asked for the help of the org to add some weight and help. I am fairly certain that in each of those issues nothing was done. From the parks, DMV, NLV, library etc.

varminter22 · Feb 25, 2013

Vegassteve said:
Let me answer some of these questions.

First the park. Some of us here do not wish our money going to a group that infringes on our rights. That group in this case is Clark Co. Would you have held the meeting at a complex that the brady group ran? Pretty sure you wouldnt have. Yet you are asking us to fight the battle and then giving our money to the very group(county) we fight.

Second a take over. No one is advocating a full take over. One member though would have liked to have put forth motions to be voted on. And that member followed the by laws to do so. The president though would not allow it. He made up his own rules. So now it seems we must go a different route. Getting signatures and forcing a vote. I am not even confident that will work. Why? Because who is to say the president just doesnt make up a new rule?

Third in the 1.5 years some of us have sent issues to the group to be looked at and in some cases asked for the help of the org to add some weight and help. I am fairly certain that in each of those issues nothing was done. From the parks, DMV, NLV, library etc.

Thanks, Steve.

I too am disgusted with Clark County politics. But if we are to take it to the extreme, why not say, "Move out of Clark County"??

Don't misunderstand. I agree the County needs new leadership and needs to repeal many ordinances.

I'll go back and re-read the bylaws. It does, however, make sense to give fair notice to the entire membership before voting on items of such importance (such as bylaws.)

The proposed amendments can still be made. Heck, I even encourage it.

NVFAC has been engaged in many issues/areas. For example: http://www.nvfac.org/LegislativeDivision.aspx

The Big Guy · Feb 25, 2013

varminter22 said:
As from the start of this NVFAC debate, I've been unable to understand. There has been anti-NVFAC rhetoric since day one.

NVFAC has been forthcoming. "Growing pains"? Sure. Not yet even 1.5 years old.

Much ado about nothing was made of the IRS determination of 501(C)4 status. That whole debate was irrelevant. One does NOT even need any 501(C) status. NVFAC has been a Nevada non-profit corporation since day one - duly filed with the Nevada SecState. But NVFAC did indeed seek - and finally obtained (after several month delay by the IRS) - federal 501(C)4 status. Wasn't required, but we did. Yet, somehow it was our fault the IRS was not speedy enough in making their determination.

Yet NVFAC has been engaged. And now has a full time (for at least a couple of months) paid lobbyist. (We still hope to raise funds to hire the lobbyist for the last two months of the session.)

NVFAC does not oppose efforts/agenda of this OC group. Yet some "badmouth" NVFAC. And yet again want to do a "takeover."

I'm told that most gun groups in Clark County have failed within the first year due to infighting.

Can we not agree we're all in this together??

We can argue till we're blue in the face about the Clark County Shooting Complex. The fact is, shooters wanted it - NOT the County Commissioners. And it is NOT NVFAC's baby. It belongs to the county. Sure, our current NVFAC President was involved in the shooting park's planning, etc. But is no longer affiliated with it. Why can't we fight the good battle TOGETHER to repeal Clark County's draconian (and unconstitutional, in my opinion) handgun registration scheme?? Et al, etc.

We all have a lot on our collective plate.

Thanks for the great remarks about Stillwater Firearms Ass'n. I've turned over my position as Chairman of its Legislative Action Cmte to Sam McGuire.

I think saying that "yet again want to do a takeover" is not accurate. At no time did I, or anyone else that I know of, say they want to "take over" the NVFAC. I am now, and intend to stay, a member. I have constantly argued that people should join and help with the effort in Carson City. In fact I intend to further donate to the lobby effort. I have constantly argued on this forum that the Coalition is suffering growing pains but that isn't reason not to join. I simply believe as it is having these growing pains the Coalition should be sensitive (politically correct word) to the opinions of the membership and understand that all members need to feel they have a say in the direction it takes. It is my belief that some of the policies of the Coalition gives excuse for some not to join. Yes, there are those that will not join no matter what and will do everything they can to get others not to join in the effort. There are some that believe exclusively in individual efforts and do so with great vigor. I applaud them for their efforts. I believe there are those who just sit back, never make any kind of effort, want others to do all the work, do it their way and spend their time bitching and complaining. I have no time for them. I personally think that differences of opinion do not have to be divisive and can help keep the Coalition aimed in the right direction.

I'm not accusing anyone of this, but I have been involved in membership groups where people at the top are so dug in that they resent anyone they feel is a threat to their power. They get the notion that they own it and have ultimate say. They will not tolerate anyone with an opposing opinion. These kinds of things are exactly why we need an active membership. Neither entrenchment at the top, nor take over’s, which will become entrenchments at the top, are good for the Coalition.

You and I have spoken about some things that we agree on and there are obviously things we don't, but there is either room for everyone or no one at all.

TBG

varminter22 · Feb 25, 2013

Thanks, TBG.

I agree - there is room for everyone.

I think we agree more than 90% or 95%!

Vegassteve · Feb 25, 2013

varminter22 said:
Thanks, Steve.

I too am disgusted with Clark County politics. But if we are to take it to the extreme, why not say, "Move out of Clark County"??

Trust me its on the table. We are active in looking for out of county property. Our current house is very underwater, we could take the easy way out and walk away. We have higher standards than that though. NYE is our only choice right now because of job and medical reasons. If we could live up north or heck in Utah we would. The economic and medical situation we face does not allow that.

Your suggestion to just move borders on the gotcha moment Don Turner tried on me at the meeting. And to that I responded with I do all I can to never give the county more time, money or support than needed.

The very fact that the NVFAC held a meeting at the park flies in the face of the second objective of the group from the handout. I agree its a great range. I used to really like using it. I on the other hand in this case am not trading my comfort for liberty.

The Big Guy · Feb 25, 2013

Vegassteve said:
varminter22 said:

Thanks, Steve.

I too am disgusted with Clark County politics. But if we are to take it to the extreme, why not say, "Move out of Clark County"??

Trust me its on the table. We are active in looking for out of county property. Our current house is very underwater, we could take the easy way out and walk away. We have higher standards than that though. NYE is our only choice right now because of job and medical reasons. If we could live up north or heck in Utah we would. The economic and medical situation we face does not allow that.

Your suggestion to just move borders on the gotcha moment Don Turner tried on me at the meeting. And to that I responded with I do all I can to never give the county more time, money or support than needed.

The very fact that the NVFAC held a meeting at the park flies in the face of the second objective of the group from the handout. I agree its a great range. I used to really like using it. I on the other hand in this case am not trading my comfort for liberty.

Click to expand...

I too have the same situation. I have been tempted to pack up and move home and business over the hump. It is just not feasible for me. In a way though I am glad as I don't like running and unfortunately as Clark County goes, so goes the State. At least there is a bettern' even chance of that happening. I believe there is a very good chance for us to lose ground this session. If we can have a stalemate I would call it a victory. We are going to have to fight tooth and nail for that to happen in my opinion. Having said that I think our best defense is exactly what is happening, go after them head on with guns (pardon the term) blazing and make them dance to our tune. I believe we should consider this session as a set up to court action in the next 2 years. All this needs is active people and money. Proactive you win. Reactive you lose.

TBG

DVC · Feb 25, 2013

varminter22 said:
And yet again want to do a "takeover."

You might want to be more careful when you read.

Nobody wants to do a takeover.

TBG posted info about two rules which he doesn't like, and I actually DEFENDED NVFAC for having those rules, and explained why they are a good idea until your club gets established.

varminter22 · Feb 25, 2013

Roger that.

varminter22 · Feb 25, 2013

Vegassteve said:
The very fact that the NVFAC held a meeting at the park flies in the face of the second objective of the group from the handout. I agree its a great range. I used to really like using it. I on the other hand in this case am not trading my comfort for liberty.

We certianly agree on most everything - except maybe this issue.

I just don't see how it benefits anyone to attempt to make the shooting range fail.

We can still battle to make city/county/state law better.

Vegassteve · Feb 26, 2013

varminter22 said:
We certianly agree on most everything - except maybe this issue.

I just don't see how it benefits anyone to attempt to make the shooting range fail.

We can still battle to make city/county/state law better.

I dont want it to fail. I want it. I just refuse to give the enemy my money more than I have to. How about by telling the county that the NVFAC wont hold its meetings there until the county gets in line? Explain to all those councilmen that want the park why we cant use it. Just like we all talk about not giving a business our money that wont allow us in the door.

Again I ask. Do you consider the Brady group the enemy? If they ran the range would you hold a meeting there? In this case the county is refusing to follow state law, and we are legitimizing that by using them. Honestly if the NVFAC could see this one thing, I would give them more money. I would trumpet the group. I would make phone calls write letters etc to get more members. Until such time though I wont. I cant. It is bad business. It goes against my fiber of what is right.

DON`T TREAD ON ME · Feb 26, 2013

varminter22 said:
Thanks, Steve.

I too am disgusted with Clark County politics. But if we are to take it to the extreme, why not say, "Move out of Clark County"??

Don't misunderstand. I agree the County needs new leadership and needs to repeal many ordinances.

I'll go back and re-read the bylaws. It does, however, make sense to give fair notice to the entire membership before voting on items of such importance (such as bylaws.)

The proposed amendments can still be made. Heck, I even encourage it.

NVFAC has been engaged in many issues/areas. For example: http://www.nvfac.org/LegislativeDivision.aspx

I clicked the link you provided, and all there was was a "log In Page" and an ad for Bob Irwin's Store. If you were attempting to substantiate your claim, It did not work.

Does anyone know of a time in the last 1.5 years when there have been arraignments made by NVFAC for the body of the membership to bring up motions such as TBG tried?

DVC · Feb 26, 2013

DON`T TREAD ON ME said:
I clicked the link you provided, and all there was was a "log In Page" and an ad for Bob Irwin's Store.

I just tried and got the same thing.

Merlin · Mar 2, 2013

Vegassteve said:
I dont want it to fail. I want it. I just refuse to give the enemy my money more than I have to. How about by telling the county that the NVFAC wont hold its meetings there until the county gets in line? Explain to all those councilmen that want the park why we cant use it. Just like we all talk about not giving a business our money that wont allow us in the door.
..

I think the problem is that the same people within Clark county that don't respect our rights are the same people that DO want the park to fail. So by boycotting the park, we are helping their agenda, and not ours.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

DON`T TREAD ON ME · Mar 2, 2013

Merlin said:
I think the problem is that the same people within Clark county that don't respect our rights are the same people that DO want the park to fail. So by boycotting the park, we are helping their agenda, and not ours.

It is possible that a good number of those folks are not against the Gun Range, They may just be upset that their tax money is going to a hole... The socialization of our shooting ranges actually works for their agenda. Once the Government run shooting park utilizes subsidies to run out the Private sector, the government run shooting park can then make all the rules!

varminter22 · Mar 2, 2013

DON`T TREAD ON ME said:
It is possible that a good number of those folks are not against the Gun Range, They may just be upset that their tax money is going to a hole... The socialization of our shooting ranges actually works for their agenda. Once the Government run shooting park utilizes subsidies to run out the Private sector, the government run shooting park can then make all the rules!

It was said the shooting park is to be self sufficient with five years of inception and that is well on track to happen.

varminter22 · Mar 2, 2013

DON`T TREAD ON ME said:
I clicked the link you provided, and all there was was a "log In Page" and an ad for Bob Irwin's Store. If you were attempting to substantiate your claim, It did not work.

Sorry. Apparently one must be a member to login and view.

Here is a sampling of available docs:


	Assault Weapons Testimony - August 28th, 2012
	Clark County Handgun Registration: History and Strategy
	Letter of Support February 2013
	Letter to BLM - Carson City District Resource Management Plan April 22nd, 2012
	Letter to Congress - Fast & Furious July 4th, 2012
	Letter To Dean Heller - 1/30/2013
	Letter to Dean Heller Judicial Appointment - 04/07/2012
	Letter to Harry Reid - 1/30/2013
	Letter to NV State Parks - October 5th, 2011
	Nevada Firearms Laws August 2012
	NSCA Request - 2013
	NVFAC 2012 General Election Candidate Ratings

	Request for Audit - Collins Response
	Request For Audit - Reid Response
	Request for Audit August 27th, 2012

wrightme · Mar 2, 2013

Linkies no workie.

varminter22 · Mar 2, 2013

wrightme said:
Linkies no workie.

Yeah. Just a sampling of docs available. Apparently one must be a member to login and view them.

NVFAC membership meeting

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