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Now is the time to file Notice of Trespasses to your law enforcement departments

davidmcbeth

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I said no such thing. Nor did I imply it.

However, I will flat-out say that there are circumstances where they may indeed enter your land or house, with resistance on your part being lawfully met with force, up to an including deadly force, and criminal charges against a surviving resistor. Examples: They are lawfully serving a warrant. Or they are lawfully reacting to exigent circumstances.

Folks, don't let lawyer wannabes convince you that you are legally able to do things that could actually get you killed. Make them cite law that very specifically states what recourses you have to officers knocking on your door.
.

Are YOU a lawyer? Did I not state to check local laws? You are putting words in MY mouth. "make them cite law...." ... I need not do this ... what you want me to examine every law in the country?

And I certainly did say that LEO's may have a right to be on your land ... but in reality, most of the time -- when a LEO is on your land for legally recognized purposes in conflict with a notice, one would likely already know why they are there.

Some people on this forum are getting to be trolls.
 

Citizen

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Are YOU a lawyer? Did I not state to check local laws? You are putting words in MY mouth. "make them cite law...." ... I need not do this ... what you want me to examine every law in the country?

And I certainly did say that LEO's may have a right to be on your land ... but in reality, most of the time -- when a LEO is on your land for legally recognized purposes in conflict with a notice, one would likely already know why they are there.

Some people on this forum are getting to be trolls.


Huh? Do you really expect readers to memorize the rafts and rafts of case law on curtilage and exingent circumstances so they can figure out whether the cop has genuine legal authority to bypass your trespass notice or refused consent? Really?
 

davidmcbeth

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Huh? Do you really expect readers to memorize the rafts and rafts of case law on curtilage and exingent circumstances so they can figure out whether the cop has genuine legal authority to bypass your trespass notice or refused consent? Really?

Exactly my point ... one should familiarize themselves and re-familiarize themselves with this subject matter over time...as the law changes...its beyond this forum IMO to do a full examination..

Best to examine this aspect of your rights before the cops start trying to gain entry into your dwelling, right? Otherwise it could put one into a sticky situation.

And yes, people should know their rights and legal options ... I think everyone would agree with this ...
 

OC for ME

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LE enters upon you property because you or yours are their focus. Or, you and yours are not their focus but another who they witness has, or they reasonably believe has entered upon your property. In any case, we are bound to gain a redress of wrongs, if any have occurred, via the legal process.

Remember, cops will not be held to meaningful account for any good faith mistakes.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/police-shoot-kill-dog-when-going-to-a-home-by-mistake/
 

sudden valley gunner

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Sure.

But, as I think more about it, it occurs to me that one need not have a genuine ability to arrest or convict. If it works in the reader's state, he could always just record the repeated refusals to leave, then hike down to the nearest magistrate and swear out a warrant. Even if the magistrate refuses, the cops will sit up and take notice of the attempt. Especially when you include the attempt in a formal written complaint to internal affairs along with the recording.

Often, just making yourself a bureaucratic pain-in-the-butt, will deter abuse. It also makes them recognize, "Oh, jeez. We gotta be careful with this one. He's willing to fight back." I strongly suspect that "fight back" reputation is the main reason OCers are generally left alone by cops. I think there are lots of cops who routinely violated 4A rights on other people as a matter of course in their daily activities. Then one fine day one of them bangs into an OCer, starts to pull his usual rights-violating tactics, and suddenly discovers those tactics don't work because the OCer knows his rights, and is willing to make noise about it by way of formal written complaint or lawsuit. I think the same can apply to any situation with cops, not just OC.


Wish we could do this in my area.
 

papa bear

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Sure.

But, as I think more about it, it occurs to me that one need not have a genuine ability to arrest or convict. If it works in the reader's state, he could always just record the repeated refusals to leave, then hike down to the nearest magistrate and swear out a warrant. Even if the magistrate refuses, the cops will sit up and take notice of the attempt. Especially when you include the attempt in a formal written complaint to internal affairs along with the recording.

Often, just making yourself a bureaucratic pain-in-the-butt, will deter abuse. It also makes them recognize, "Oh, jeez. We gotta be careful with this one. He's willing to fight back." I strongly suspect that "fight back" reputation is the main reason OCers are generally left alone by cops. I think there are lots of cops who routinely violated 4A rights on other people as a matter of course in their daily activities. Then one fine day one of them bangs into an OCer, starts to pull his usual rights-violating tactics, and suddenly discovers those tactics don't work because the OCer knows his rights, and is willing to make noise about it by way of formal written complaint or lawsuit. I think the same can apply to any situation with cops, not just OC.

I'm going to agree with DAVIDE and CITIZEN. being a pain in the butt will deter LEA from violating your rights. there is history of filing "notice of tresspass" with agency's, it will make them think twice before entering your property. of course there are arogant LEOs that will think they are above the laws. in this case you will have to follow through. do look into local laws , because in some states your open land is just that open


have to agree with 95 and OC also. you can not physicly/ legaly do anything to stop them. but letting them know they will be charged will help.


warrentless search http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB_jp3Sm1BY

sorry about any misspellings, i am on another computer that doesn't have spell check
 

Citizen

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Exactly my point ... one should familiarize themselves and re-familiarize themselves with this subject matter over time...as the law changes...its beyond this forum IMO to do a full examination..

Best to examine this aspect of your rights before the cops start trying to gain entry into your dwelling, right? Otherwise it could put one into a sticky situation.

And yes, people should know their rights and legal options ... I think everyone would agree with this ...


Ummm. No. This subject area is not unlike reasonable articulable suspicion. The courts rule on each set of circumstances as it comes up. This is exactly why there are so many appellate court cases on the subject.
 

Citizen

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I'm going to agree with DAVIDE and CITIZEN. being a pain in the butt will deter LEA from violating your rights. there is history of filing "notice of tresspass" with agency's, it will make them think twice before entering your property. of course there are arogant LEOs that will think they are above the laws. in this case you will have to follow through. do look into local laws , because in some states your open land is just that open


have to agree with 95 and OC also. you can not physicly/ legaly do anything to stop them. but letting them know they will be charged will help.


warrentless search http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB_jp3Sm1BY

sorry about any misspellings, i am on another computer that doesn't have spell check


I don't think anybody is really arguing against this point; I think the objection is more along the lines that McBeth, having understated the rest of the picture, is continuing to understate it in his ongoing defensiveness.

I just don't see trespass notices being all that useful unless you live in a burg where the cops are harassing you personally, or have some other policy of suspicionless, door-to-door visits. That's not to say there is no use; just that I think its going to be rather slight.
 

Citizen

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Wish we could do this in my area. (citizens swearing out warrants)

I wonder if that is part of the common-law heritage of the original colonies.

If there is no statutory prohibition, I would just go bug the magistrate anyway. You know, better to ask forgiveness than permission.

I can't tell you how many times I swore out warrants on my own against shoplifters and so forth when I worked in retail. In some cases it was almost as though the cops preferred that (or maybe that was the state of the law back then.)

It was pretty easy. Just walk up to the magistrate's desk. Raise your hand, swear the oath to tell the truth. Make your complaint verbally stating the facts. The magistrate would sometimes ask questions to dig out facts. The magistrate would then start writing the warrant. And, you knew you were going to have to appear in court. You knew when you swore out the warrant that eventually you were going to meet a deputy wanting to hand you a subpoena.
 

NoTolerance

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Let's assume you notify all agencies that they'll be trespassing if they step foot on your property. Then let's assume Agency X ignores said posting. Who, exactly, are you going to call to enforce your trespassing complaint?
 

eye95

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Are YOU a lawyer?...

No, but I am not the one who dispensed bad legal advice in the OP. You are.

Did I not state to check local laws?

Not in the OP, which is what I am chastising you for. When you added the caveat in a later post, you made your first post kind of silly. What I hear you saying in the combination of posts is: Trespass the officers. No law is cited saying when you can and what the consequences will be. Oh, wait, check your local law to avoid the potential consequences another poster had to point out because I did not.

Your first post is irresponsible. The fact that you later posted a belated check-local-laws does not mitigate the potential damage you may cause to some hapless reader of that bad advice in the first post.

...Some people on this forum are getting to be trolls.

Yes, you are. May I suggest that you stop handing out unsubstantiated legal advice and that you take responsibility for horrible mistakes like you made in the first post. If you do that, you will stop looking so much like a troll.
 

georg jetson

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Let's assume you notify all agencies that they'll be trespassing if they step foot on your property. Then let's assume Agency X ignores said posting. Who, exactly, are you going to call to enforce your trespassing complaint?

I'm not saying that this "notice of trespass" has any force in law, but if you're having troube with tresspassing LEOs and complaints to superiors don't work, then file for a TRO. Get the courts to enforce your complaint.
 

Citizen

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I'm not saying that this "notice of trespass" has any force in law, but if you're having troube with tresspassing LEOs and complaints to superiors don't work, then file for a TRO. Get the courts to enforce your complaint.


Heh, heh, heh. "Your honor, Officers Limpwrist and Hipwriggle seem to be taking a homosexual interest in me. I'm be stalked."

Let 'em try to live that down in the locker room.

:D



ETA: "Your honor, I'm even getting occasional heavy-breathing phone calls from a phone number labeled 'subscriber unavailable'"

"Did you report these calls to the police?"

"I figured it was the police, your honor."
 
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Tucker6900

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Examples: They are lawfully serving a warrant. Or they are lawfully reacting to exigent circumstances.

.

I am not so sure the OP is suggesting otherwise. It sounds like, and I may be mistaken, that he intends on informing people to try and prevent unlawful entry onto private property by LEO's. Which is perfectly legal. Without probable cause, reasonable suspicion, a warrant, chasing a suspect, etc, they have no reason to be on my property. I dont see the harm in informing LE ahead of time that they are not welcome, other than the previously mentioned, or quoted, reasons. If the police are there just to talk to the OP, or property owner, it sounds to me like his plan is to make them leave and come back with a warrant, or not come at all.
 

eye95

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I am not so sure the OP is suggesting otherwise. It sounds like, and I may be mistaken, that he intends on informing people to try and prevent unlawful entry onto private property by LEO's. Which is perfectly legal. Without probable cause, reasonable suspicion, a warrant, chasing a suspect, etc, they have no reason to be on my property. I dont see the harm in informing LE ahead of time that they are not welcome, other than the previously mentioned, or quoted, reasons. If the police are there just to talk to the OP, or property owner, it sounds to me like his plan is to make them leave and come back with a warrant, or not come at all.

...Then if they come onto your land THEY are the criminals....

Sounds to me like he is not qualifying his statement in that way. His statement is recklessly general. Furthermore, if they come on to your land with a warrant (or for some other lawful reason which won't necessarily require a warrant) and you follow the advice of the OP, there could be consequences ranging from criminal charges to death.

His post is irresponsible and smacks of someone giving legal advice without a license.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

NoTolerance

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I'm not saying that this "notice of trespass" has any force in law, but if you're having troube with tresspassing LEOs and complaints to superiors don't work, then file for a TRO. Get the courts to enforce your complaint.

And who do the courts turn to for enforcement?

I'm just trying to take this to its logical conclusion...

The OP suggests filing notice with ALL law enforcement agencies.
 

georg jetson

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And who do the courts turn to for enforcement?

I'm just trying to take this to its logical conclusion...

The OP suggests filing notice with ALL law enforcement agencies.

Yeah, I see you're point... There are ways to get LEOs to do what they're suppose to, but it takes a bit of work. The correct work to boot.

The OP's statement about "filing notice" TO your LE departments is suspect. If you're gonna "file" something it should be with the clerk of court. Sending a "trespass notice" letter to an LEO agency will get some good chuckles... not much else.
 
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davidmcbeth

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I am not so sure the OP is suggesting otherwise. It sounds like, and I may be mistaken, that he intends on informing people to try and prevent unlawful entry onto private property by LEO's. Which is perfectly legal. Without probable cause, reasonable suspicion, a warrant, chasing a suspect, etc, they have no reason to be on my property. I dont see the harm in informing LE ahead of time that they are not welcome, other than the previously mentioned, or quoted, reasons. If the police are there just to talk to the OP, or property owner, it sounds to me like his plan is to make them leave and come back with a warrant, or not come at all.

Exactly .... they should not come at all without a lawful reason to violate my notice ..
 
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