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New member part 2

Law abider

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
1,164
Location
Ellsworth Wisconsin
I was informed by davegran that the village of Ellsworth's ordinance to discharge and carry a firearm is non enforcable. I did look up state statutes 66.0409 and sent this letter to the honorable city council members.

Dear City council members: I don't live in the village of Ellsworth but in the township of Ellsworth. I have noticed that a city ordinance is in violation of state statutes unless it has been amended and I have not seen the amended ordinance. The ordinance is 9.02 Discharging and carrying firearms and guns. Please read Wi state statute 66.0409: Local regulation of firearms sub 1-6. The village ordinance needs to be updated because it conflicts with open carry of a hand gun. At present the current village ordinance is non enforceable per state statute 66.0409. Wisconsin Attorney General Van Hollen in April of 2009 did issue an Advisory Memo in April of 2009,regarding this issue it can be found at www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/Final OpenCarryMemo.pdf. On the same website will be the new conceal to carry legal paper just released. Please respond to this request and I hope the honorable city council will look into this matter.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Please read the actual law. I know this is picking nits but there is a difference between 'not enforceable' and 'not enactable'.

66.0409 Local regulation of firearms. (1) In this section:(a) “Firearm” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (c).
(b) “Political subdivision” means a city, village, town or
county.
(c) “Sport shooting range” means an area designed and operated
for the practice of weapons used in hunting, skeet shooting
and similar sport shooting.
(2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision
may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates
the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping,
possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting,
registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including
ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or
resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than,
a state statute.
(3) (a) Nothing in this section prohibits a county from imposing
a sales tax or use tax under subch. V of ch. 77 on any firearm
or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components,
sold in the county.
(b) Nothing in this section prohibits a city, village or town that
is authorized to exercise village powers under s. 60.22 (3) from
enacting an ordinance or adopting a resolution that restricts the
discharge of a firearm. Any ordinance or resolution that restricts
the discharge of a firearm does not apply and may not be enforced
if the actor’s conduct is justified or, had it been subject to a criminal
penalty, would have been subject to a defense described in s.
939.45.
(4) (a) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision
from continuing to enforce an ordinance or resolution that is in
effect on November 18, 1995, and that regulates the sale, purchase,
transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing,
transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of
any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and
reloader components, if the ordinance or resolution is the same as
or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
(am) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision
from continuing to enforce until November 30, 1998, an ordinance
or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and
that requires a waiting period of not more than 7 days for the purchase
of a handgun.
(b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17,
1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase,
transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation,
licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm
or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components,
and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar
to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal
effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance
or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.
(c) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision
from enacting and enforcing a zoning ordinance that regulates the
new construction of a sport shooting range or when the expansion
of an existing sport shooting range would impact public health and
safety.
(5) A county ordinance that is enacted or a county resolutionthat is adopted by a county under sub. (2) or a county ordinance
or resolution that remains in effect under sub. (4) (a) or (am)
applies only in those towns in the county that have not enacted an
ordinance or adopted a resolution under sub. (2) or that continue
to enforce an ordinance or resolution under sub. (4) (a) or (am),
except that this subsection does not apply to a sales or use tax that
is imposed under subch. V of ch. 77.
(6) Unless other facts and circumstances that indicate a criminal
or malicious intent on the part of the person apply, no person
may be in violation of, or be charged with a violation of, an ordinance
of a political subdivision relating to disorderly conduct or
other inappropriate behavior for loading, carrying, or going armed
with a firearm, without regard to whether the firearm is loaded or
is concealed or openly carried. Any ordinance in violation of this
subsection does not apply and may not be enforced.
History: 1995 a. 72; 1999 a. 150 s. 260; Stats. 1999 s. 66.0409; 2011 a. 35.
This section does not prohibit municipalities from enacting and enforcing zoning
ordinances that apply to sport shooting ranges. Town of Avon v. Oliver, 2002 WI App
97, 253 Wis. 2d 647, 644 N.W.2d 260, 01−1851.

66.0409(2) says they can't enact a new statutes. No penalty if they do.

66.0409(4)(b) says they can't enforce a statute that was passed before 11/18/95.

So.... to recap, there is no penalty in this statute. So... the towns/counties/government agencies can do whatever the hell they want and there is nothing we can do about it. They can issue the citation, make you go to court and most likely the district attorney would drop the charges or the judge would but the law can stay on the books.

We need to get some teeth into this. Madison has already said they will pass an ordinance that stops carrying in their buildings. The implication is that they will ticket us even if they don't have the proper signage just to chill our rights.
 

AaronS

Regular Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
1,497
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
I was informed by davegran that the village of Ellsworth's ordinance to discharge and carry a firearm is non enforcable. I did look up state statutes 66.0409 and sent this letter to the honorable city council members.

Dear City council members: I don't live in the village of Ellsworth but in the township of Ellsworth. I have noticed that a city ordinance is in violation of state statutes unless it has been amended and I have not seen the amended ordinance. The ordinance is 9.02 Discharging and carrying firearms and guns. Please read Wi state statute 66.0409: Local regulation of firearms sub 1-6. The village ordinance needs to be updated because it conflicts with open carry of a hand gun. At present the current village ordinance is non enforceable per state statute 66.0409. Wisconsin Attorney General Van Hollen in April of 2009 did issue an Advisory Memo in April of 2009,regarding this issue it can be found at www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/Final OpenCarryMemo.pdf. On the same website will be the new conceal to carry legal paper just released. Please respond to this request and I hope the honorable city council will look into this matter.

Well, you do like to jump in all the way...

Hey no joke, this is a very good thing. A bunch of our members have done the same thing you have started, and have seen local laws (on the books) corrected.
No judge can enforce it, but you know how some police officers work.
So yea, stay on them with this, and you might be the next to have a local law fixed.
Thanks for the work.
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
Please read the actual law. I know this is picking nits but there is a difference between 'not enforceable' and 'not enactable'.



66.0409(2) says they can't enact a new statutes. No penalty if they do.

66.0409(4)(b) says they can't enforce a statute that was passed before 11/18/95.

So.... to recap, there is no penalty in this statute. So... the towns/counties/government agencies can do whatever the hell they want and there is nothing we can do about it. They can issue the citation, make you go to court and most likely the district attorney would drop the charges or the judge would but the law can stay on the books.

We need to get some teeth into this. Madison has already said they will pass an ordinance that stops carrying in their buildings. The implication is that they will ticket us even if they don't have the proper signage just to chill our rights.

Yes, we need out legislators to put some teeth into 66.0409, just like Florida. This is what bothers me. I imagine a female who may need to carry a handgun to protect herself, but does not because her research tells here that it is illegal where she lives. Then she becomes a victimn of a violent crime and chose not to have the means to defend herself because she did not want to break the law. An unenforceable law disarmed her and made her a victimn. Keeping unenforceable ordinances on the books is lying to the public.


I am lucky to live in a county that wiped out all firearm ordinances after 66.0409. They didn't even make replicas of any statutes like the could have. All they enforce is State Statutes when it comes to firearm violations.
 
Last edited:

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
Attaboy!

.... I did look up state statutes 66.0409 and sent this letter to the honorable city council members.

Dear City council members: I don't live in the village of Ellsworth but in the township of Ellsworth. I have noticed that a city ordinance is in violation of state statutes unless it has been amended and I have not seen the amended ordinance. The ordinance is 9.02 Discharging and carrying firearms and guns. Please read Wi state statute 66.0409: Local regulation of firearms sub 1-6. The village ordinance needs to be updated because it conflicts with open carry of a hand gun. At present the current village ordinance is non enforceable per state statute 66.0409. Wisconsin Attorney General Van Hollen in April of 2009 did issue an Advisory Memo in April of 2009,regarding this issue it can be found at www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/Final OpenCarryMemo.pdf. On the same website will be the new conceal to carry legal paper just released. Please respond to this request and I hope the honorable city council will look into this matter.
Nice going, Law abider! Excellent letter; very direct and straight to the point without sounding like you were wearing a tinfoil hat. Taking action like you did separates you from the average forum member who does nothing but show up for coffee and bitch about the law; GOOD FOR YOU AND GOOD FOR US! :banana:
 

Law abider

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
1,164
Location
Ellsworth Wisconsin
I love to jump in

Well, you do like to jump in all the way...

Hey no joke, this is a very good thing. A bunch of our members have done the same thing you have started, and have seen local laws (on the books) corrected.
No judge can enforce it, but you know how some police officers work.
So yea, stay on them with this, and you might be the next to have a local law fixed.
Thanks for the work.

Since 1996 when I moved to Wisconsin, I bought a home for my family. I began to get involved locally as our property taxes kept rising. So I haad to jump right in with the school board etc... and openly confronted them on this issue. just talking has gotten us loosing out constitutional rights by decree and ignorance. I feel like a prisoner in a gulag! You can't even shout Hallelujah! on the street without feeling someone will call a cop on a 'crazy guy'. Everyday I see zombies walking on streets showing no emotion because they are afraid that they just might get a leo on their trail. I don't feel free and need to, in the right way, bust out of this zombie mold. For the last 10 yrs, I have been confronting madison and local authorities on issues that have deprived us of Life Liberty and Property. We all need to jump in. I expect an answer from them.
 
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