• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

WA Schools

glock23

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
81
Location
Clark County, Washington, USA
My daughter is in a private preschool and from what I understand on carry laws for schools is that I cannot take it inside the building but can leave it locked up in the car (Loaded), is that correct?

We are aslo going on a school field trip Friday to the pumpkin patch my understanding is that I may not carry their even if I have provided my own transportaion since its a school sponsored event is that also correct? Just looking for some input thanks
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
My daughter is in a private preschool and from what I understand on carry laws for schools is that I cannot take it inside the building but can leave it locked up in the car (Loaded), is that correct?

We are aslo going on a school field trip Friday to the pumpkin patch my understanding is that I may not carry their even if I have provided my own transportaion since its a school sponsored event is that also correct? Just looking for some input thanks

1) You may not take it in the building, but may leave it in the car, that is my understanding as well... RCW 9.41.280

2) Depends...is the pumpkin patch going to be open to the public at the same time or does the school have the 'sole' use of the patch while they are there? If it remains open to the public and not under the sole use of the school than carry would be allowed (assuming this is a private business). ATG Opinion
 
Last edited:

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
1) You may not take it in the building, but may leave it in the car, that is my understanding as well... RCW 9.41.280

2) Depends...is the pumpkin patch going to be open to the public at the same time or does the school have the 'sole' use of the patch while they are there? If it remains open to the public and not under the sole use of the school than carry would be allowed (assuming this is a private business). ATG Opinion

I concur with gogo on both bullet items. However with item 1 its ASSUMED you have a WA cpl (not for state law but for the fed gun free zone act exception, I believe its 18 USC 922 (q)(2) something off the top of my head). I am on my phone so will verify later if no one else does.
 
Last edited:

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
I concur with gogo on both bullet items. However with item 1 its ASSUMED you have a WA cpl (not for state law but for the fed gun free zone act exception, I believe its 18 USC 922 (q)(2) something off the top of my head). I am on my phone so will verify later if no one else does.

Of course the CPL would also be neccesary to have the gun in a loaded condition in the vehicle according to state law.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
My daughter is in a private preschool and from what I understand on carry laws for schools is that I cannot take it inside the building but can leave it locked up in the car (Loaded), is that correct?

We are aslo going on a school field trip Friday to the pumpkin patch my understanding is that I may not carry their even if I have provided my own transportaion since its a school sponsored event is that also correct? Just looking for some input thanks

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

After further thought, if she is in a private preschool, .280 does not apply. Carrying in a private preschool would be up to the business itself and not subject to this RCW.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
My daughter is in a private preschool and from what I understand on carry laws for schools is that I cannot take it inside the building but can leave it locked up in the car (Loaded), is that correct?

We are aslo going on a school field trip Friday to the pumpkin patch my understanding is that I may not carry their even if I have provided my own transportaion since its a school sponsored event is that also correct? Just looking for some input thanks

First to the "event": You are barred from CC or OC in a FACILITY. The Pumpkin patch is a farm, it is not a FACILITY that is used exclusively by the school. So, can you carry to the Pumpkin Patch? IMHO, yes.

Item number one. You can/cannot carry on school property, that is in the building...With a CPL, during the process of dropping off/picking up a student,,,yes...no-one seems to read 3: DOES NOT APPLY TO (e)

3: does not apply to: (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
 
Last edited:

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
First to the "event": You are barred from CC or OC in a FACILITY. The Pumpkin patch is a farm, it is not a FACILITY that is used exclusively by the school. So, can you carry to the Pumpkin Patch? IMHO, yes.

Item number one. You can/cannot carry on school property, that is in the building...With a CPL, during the process of dropping off/picking up a student,,,yes...no-one seems to read 3: DOES NOT APPLY TO (e)

3: does not apply to: (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;


I don't fully understand your post (wording?). I assume you are stating its only valid to have the firearm on school property if they are picking up or dropping off a student.

I was actually looking at exception (f), which provides additional exception to have it in your car with no cpl requirement.:
(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school

Which does not have the picking up/dropping off language.
 
Last edited:

Whitney

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
435
Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities

My daughter is in a private preschool and from what I understand on carry laws for schools is that I cannot take it inside the building but can leave it locked up in the car (Loaded), is that correct?

We are aslo going on a school field trip Friday to the pumpkin patch my understanding is that I may not carry their even if I have provided my own transportaion since its a school sponsored event is that also correct? Just looking for some input thanks
RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities


(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;

(c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;


[I include (g) here only because it make this more ambiguous]​
(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or


(h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.


[And lastly for good measure]​
(7) "GUN-FREE ZONE" signs shall be posted around school facilities giving warning of the prohibition of the possession of firearms on school grounds.​


~Whitney
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I never would have thought to look there. This requirement for them does not mean I have to stay a thousand meters form them when I walk by with the pooches.
 

rlacsamana1989

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
34
Location
Everett,WA
...unless he was on his way to or from some outdoor activity like hiking, fishing, or hunting.

Without a CPL that person would be breaking the law.

For you to legally transport a firearm in a vehicle without a CCW/CPL the firearm must be fully unloaded. Also without a CPL you would be breaking the law by going within 1000ft of a school with a firearm.(regardless if it is loaded or not)
 

sirpuma

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
905
Location
Deer Park, Washington, USA
Which does not have the picking up/dropping off language.

What he's getting at is in 9.41.280. Concealed mean concealed.
"(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:..."
" (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;"

This same wording is in federal law.

So in other words, if you have a valid CPL and you are there to drop off or pick up your student, the prohibition does not apply to you. But if you're there for say a Parent/Teacher meeting, you must secure it in your vehicle.
 
Last edited:

heresolong

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
1,318
Location
Blaine, WA, ,
This is gonna burn your butt, like it does mine. The de facto ban on firearms in daycare centers in Washington is located in the Washington Administrative Code. Since the state CANNOT legally ban firearms in daycare centers (without revising the RCW), the Department of Licensing has taken it upon themselves to make it a requirement for a daycare center to be licensed that the licensee ban firearms on the premises in order to get/keep their license.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=170-295-5020

WAC 170-295-5020
How do I maintain a safe environment?

(g) Gunshots by ensuring no firearm or another weapon is on the premises;

Of course this doesn't prevent you from carrying you firearm. There is no law that says you can't. All you would be guilty of is breaking the rules of the daycare. Furthermore, is there any penalty for the daycare for failure to abide by their own rules?
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Of course this doesn't prevent you from carrying you firearm. There is no law that says you can't. All you would be guilty of is breaking the rules of the daycare. Furthermore, is there any penalty for the daycare for failure to abide by their own rules?

WACs are administrative code, and if they do not have an RCW to back them up they have no force of law. You cannot be charged with violating a WAC, only an RCW. This is why UW cannot prosecute the general public for carrying on campus. They think they can, but they do not have the RCW to back up their actions.

you cannot read and understand .280, without reading .270 (both paragraphs compliments of our not friend Mike Lowry). Do not get stuck on one paragraph, without reading the whole of RCW 9.41.

Also, remember "facility" is a building, not the grounds.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
<snip>

Also, remember "facility" is a building, not the grounds.

No, that is bad advice. Please read the AG opinion linked in post #2 and again HERE.

Facility is not the factor in the AG opinion. A soccer field and the surrounding grounds are a 'facility' and the school can have 'sole' use of that type of facility.

ESSB 5307 was amended in the House to incorporate the current language, and the Senate concurred in the House's amendment. The language of the House amendment was apparently intended to encompass the lease of athletic facilities included in the Senate version (which by their nature might be used only on a "sporadic" basis) and to broaden the provision to also include other facilities used exclusively by schools. The amendatory language expanded the prohibition to all facilities, and areas of facilities, regardless of the nature of the schools' use or the means by which the possession of the facilities is obtained.

What is important is if the school has the power to exclude or is the facility, grounds, pumpkin patch open to the public and not under their sole use.
 

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
Without a CPL that person would be breaking the law.

For you to legally transport a firearm in a vehicle without a CCW/CPL the firearm must be fully unloaded. Also without a CPL you would be breaking the law by going within 1000ft of a school with a firearm.(regardless if it is loaded or not)

...unless he was on his way to or from some outdoor activity like hiking, fishing, or hunting.
Wow, you state this with such authority... as though you know what you're talking about. NavyLCDR has it right (as usual) and you would do well to note that this forum isn't (or at least didn't used to be) very tolerant of people stating their opinion as fact. If you preface your statements with, "I think that...." or "I was told that..." you would be much better off. ;)
 

GuidoZ

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
192
Location
Skagit County, WA
What he's getting at is in 9.41.280. Concealed mean concealed.
"(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:..."
" (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;"

This same wording is in federal law.

So in other words, if you have a valid CPL and you are there to drop off or pick up your student, the prohibition does not apply to you. But if you're there for say a Parent/Teacher meeting, you must secure it in your vehicle.
This is exactly what I thought, and confirmed after reviewing the RCW with my daughter's private school. As long as I was there to pick her up or drop her off, I didn't have to disarm. (I made sure to keep it covered-up to avoid any difficulties, after all, it's my daughter that may suffer.) I have not spoken to the public school where she is now attending, but I assumed it to be the same. I will ask them and see what is said. (Of course they have a very obvious "NO FIREARMS" sign as you walk up to the front door.)

Any other thoughts?

--
Peace. ~G
 
Top