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Washoe County officials ignore or don't know O.C law, RPD gets their bluff called.

chrsjhnsn

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
338
Location
La Paz county, Arizona.
Up until two weeks ago I was an independent contractor for Washoe County.
I was a driver for the Gerlach senior citizens ( bus driver )

I had been planning on quitting, so the whole affair was more amusing then critical- but it showed how much work
we have to do in educating our public officials.

I had only one passenger, a total moron.
Being that I was driving a county vehicle I decided to open carry ( what is that law again 202. 36 something? )
The bus overheated and Mr Moron got his underwear in a twist, I parked in the shade and waited for the supervisors to come and get the bus.
While we were waiting Mr Moron decided to get upset at me carrying, he produced a leather sap and was waving it around saying "now I have a weapon too, I'll crack your skull if you make a move"

I told him "that's nice, please put it away" ... He kept persisting in being threatening with his stupid little sap ( really, I carry a full size .40 caliber glock - he is a big guy but I can stop him in his tracks )
After 3 times of him acting like a Dbag I told him "one more time I call the cops".
Naturally he had to go ahead and threaten me again, so I called the cops.

RPD got there the same time as my supervisors so I had to explain the situation about ten times to everyone, being outside I had my vest on so my sidearm was concealed - I had notified dispatch that I was armed and RPD was really cool about it, they didn't even look at my CCW or the sidearm.

BUT ... one of the cops told me that "you have a CCW, you can't open carry, I can take your gun you know" instead of arguing with him I simply said "OK"
My supervisor said "no guns are allowed on County property" instead of arguing with her I simply said "OK"

The reason is my purpose was to get out of the hundred plus heat and go home, I wasn't there to protest or educate.

They repeated this misinformation over and over again, I guess they were expecting an argument, or could tell I didn't believe a word they were saying ...
I needed a ride back to Gerlach and if I didn't get one I would have spent the night in Reno with no money ( I live paycheck to paycheck ).

They got me back to Gerlach and I quit the job, like I had been planning on all along.

So now I do want to educate Washoe County and my former supervisors, BTW they're all pretty nice folks and I harbor no ill will towards them
( REDACTED... a nice attractive young lady. Alas, I'm ugly and she is married )

So my plan is (if you kind folks can help me plan and execute this plan ) is to educate Washoe county senior center workers and supervisors and get them to change the signs on their doors to conform with the signs at the DMV.

( hey Reno/Sparks folks, when did they change the signs at DMV to "no concealed" instead of "no firearms" & who made that happen? )

So, what do we do? Do we walk into the senior center and wait to get told to leave? Anyone is allowed inside, they allow non seniors to buy lunch there ( it's cheap too )
should we meet up for a cheap lunch and wait for them to call the cops or is there a county attorney we can contact to explain our case to and he/she can send a memo out to the staff at the senior center that open carry is perfectly legal if there are no metal detectors at the doors?

I really want all gov't buildings to have the same signs the DMV has so they are no longer allowed to treat us like second class citizens.
 
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MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
The cops did not do their job very well. It is illegal for a normal person to carry an impact weapon like a sap or baton in the state of Nevada. Your passenger should have been arrested.

So they wrongly tell you what they think about you doing something, and ignore the actual real crime that was committed. Typical. I would definitely include this, and maybe see if you are still allowed to press charges. IMHO, you were threatened with that illegally-carried impact weapon.
 

chrsjhnsn

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
338
Location
La Paz county, Arizona.
The cops did not do their job very well. It is illegal for a normal person to carry an impact weapon like a sap or baton in the state of Nevada. Your passenger should have been arrested.

So they wrongly tell you what they think about you doing something, and ignore the actual real crime that was committed. Typical. I would definitely include this, and maybe see if you are still allowed to press charges. IMHO, you were threatened with that illegally-carried impact weapon.

I asked the cops about that, they said "yeah, its illegal but not high on our list of priorities" and while I really dislike Mr Moron, I want folks to carry weapons without fear of big bro - so I am not going to pursue charges.
I now have no obligation to deal with Mr Moron so the matter is unlikely to be revisited, if attacked by anyone naturally I I'll defend my self.

I want my former co-workers/supervisors informed of the law. That is all I want out of the whole thing.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
chrsjhnsn said:
I asked the cops about that, they said "yeah, its illegal but not high on our list of priorities" and while I really dislike Mr Moron, I want folks to carry weapons without fear of big bro - so I am not going to pursue charges.
If he'd only been carrying it, there wouldn't have been a problem (even though that's illegal).
He threatened you with it, several times. (That's a separate sort of illegal.)
He tried to provoke you, an armed person. (Could be disorderly conduct; again, illegal.)
 

vegaspassat

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
626
Location
united states
If he'd only been carrying it, there wouldn't have been a problem (even though that's illegal).
He threatened you with it, several times. (That's a separate sort of illegal.)
He tried to provoke you, an armed person. (Could be disorderly conduct; again, illegal.)

THIS. You were THREATENED with an illegal weapon and the police turned a blind eye? WRONG. File a complaint and press charges against RPD. Quite literally you were the victim of a crime and they told you that YOU were the criminal.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
I asked the cops about that, they said "yeah, its illegal but not high on our list of priorities" and while I really dislike Mr Moron, I want folks to carry weapons without fear of big bro - so I am not going to pursue charges.
I now have no obligation to deal with Mr Moron so the matter is unlikely to be revisited, if attacked by anyone naturally I I'll defend my self.

I want my former co-workers/supervisors informed of the law. That is all I want out of the whole thing.

If, at this late date, all you are interested in is educating them, send a letter with reference to the proper NRS and let it drop. What more can you do?'

Personally I think the guy that threatened you needs to be held accountable for his actions. I agree with you that people should not fear carrying defensive weapons. In this case however he was not in defense of himself, he was threatening you with aggression. If he was carrying a sap, a firearm or an ax doesn't matter. What matters is that he was threatening you with it. (And his tool was illegal, yours wasn't.)

As for the cops, a complaint needs to be filled against the officers. A letter should be sent to the chief of police and copied to the mayor, city council members, the city manager (if you have one), the city attorney, and the press. Make sure you outline what law/laws were broken and not enforced. Look in the city charter and city codes to show what the duties/responsibilities of the police are. For instance here in Henderson we have an ordinance that REQUIRES the police to carry out federal/state law and local ordinances. Get an incident report and get the responding officers names.

Don't allow them to make you the lawful firearm owner the bad guy while excusing the guy breaking the law. To do so just encourages the belief that we are somehow to be set apart from other citizens.

Just my opinion.

TBG
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...As for the cops, a complaint needs to be filled against the officers...

OP: Notice how this is being emphasized by several of us?

Please help us by following through. The reason police are the way they are is because we continue to let seemingly "small things" like this slide.
 
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DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
I would probably still file a complaint, but cops have qualified immunity, It is based on discretionary activity. The fact that they chose not to do anything to the perpetrator is perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.

You can go to www.ratemycop.com and give him a black mark. I have found that involving police departments often results in a net loss, no gain.

As far as the Nevada DMV changing their signs, I will share the email thread:





From: DTOM [dave@guerrillalawfare.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: Signs at the DMV
To Whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention, that the "No Firearms" signs posted in the windows and entrances, of the DMV offices, are contrary and misleading, and are not aligned with state law.


The sign your Dept. posts, cites the NRS 202.3673, as not allowing any firearms in the building. Upon reading the Statute, it appears that the statute in question is limited to "concealed" firearms, and the permit-tees of such.

While it is established that getting a concealed (permission slip) carry permit is the common way to go. some Nevadan's Choose not to hide their rights in their pocket nor under their shirt, This right has been acknowledged by the Nevada State Constitution.

Article1 Section 11

Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
1. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.
2. The military shall be subordinate to the civil power; No standing army shall be maintained by this State in time of peace, and in time of War, no appropriation for a standing army shall be for a longer time than two years.
[Amended in 1982. Proposed and passed by the 1979 legislature; agreed to and passed by the 1981 legislature; and approved and ratified by the people at the 1982 general election. See: Statutes of Nevada 1979, p. 1986; Statutes of Nevada 1981, p. 2083.]

The DMV building is a public building, and not prohibited from weapons like a school or Court. This fact makes your sign "below" innaccurate. It is true that the state does indeed have the power to regulate "concealed" weapons, I ask that your signs be changed to accuratly reflect the law that is Cited.

DTOM
Las Vegas NV
www.guerrillalawfare.com


From: Tom Jacobs <tjacobs@dmv.nv.gov>
To: "Don't Tread On Me"
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: Signs at the DMV

Mr. DTOM,
You are correct. We are in the process of changing the signs.
Tom Jacobs
Chief Public Information Officer
Nevada Dept. of Motor Vehicles
775-684-4779
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Every citizen is required to know every law in the land. No excuse for public officials, just like that there is no excuse for us.
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
Every citizen is required to know every law in the land. No excuse for public officials, just like that there is no excuse for us.

I could be wrong on this but it is my understanding that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" only applies to those who are arrested and charged with a crime. I don't believe that
police are required to know the law.

I'm guessing that many of them know the code as it applies to a given situation, but would be hard pressed to recite the actual text of the statute.

TBG
 

chrsjhnsn

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
338
Location
La Paz county, Arizona.
DTOM is it OK if I cut and paste your excellent letter to pursue this matter?

RENO/SPARKS people I am away for the summer but will visit every once in awhile, in the meantime do not open carry at the Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

You only imagine you have the right, you actually really do not have the right.

If you do not believe me Reno/Sparks folks, you can go there yourself and ask Leslie - she is the very attractive supervisor of the

Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

for those of you who are not in Reno/Sparks you can email her at
lemwilliams@washoecounty.us







I would probably still file a complaint, but cops have qualified immunity, It is based on discretionary activity. The fact that they chose not to do anything to the perpetrator is perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.

You can go to www.ratemycop.com and give him a black mark. I have found that involving police departments often results in a net loss, no gain.

As far as the Nevada DMV changing their signs, I will share the email thread:





From: DTOM [dave@guerrillalawfare.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: Signs at the DMV
To Whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention, that the "No Firearms" signs posted in the windows and entrances, of the DMV offices, are contrary and misleading, and are not aligned with state law.


The sign your Dept. posts, cites the NRS 202.3673, as not allowing any firearms in the building. Upon reading the Statute, it appears that the statute in question is limited to "concealed" firearms, and the permit-tees of such.

While it is established that getting a concealed (permission slip) carry permit is the common way to go. some Nevadan's Choose not to hide their rights in their pocket nor under their shirt, This right has been acknowledged by the Nevada State Constitution.

Article1 Section 11

Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
1. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.
2. The military shall be subordinate to the civil power; No standing army shall be maintained by this State in time of peace, and in time of War, no appropriation for a standing army shall be for a longer time than two years.
[Amended in 1982. Proposed and passed by the 1979 legislature; agreed to and passed by the 1981 legislature; and approved and ratified by the people at the 1982 general election. See: Statutes of Nevada 1979, p. 1986; Statutes of Nevada 1981, p. 2083.]

The DMV building is a public building, and not prohibited from weapons like a school or Court. This fact makes your sign "below" innaccurate. It is true that the state does indeed have the power to regulate "concealed" weapons, I ask that your signs be changed to accuratly reflect the law that is Cited.

DTOM
Las Vegas NV
www.guerrillalawfare.com


From: Tom Jacobs <tjacobs@dmv.nv.gov>
To: "Don't Tread On Me"
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: Signs at the DMV

Mr. DTOM,
You are correct. We are in the process of changing the signs.
Tom Jacobs
Chief Public Information Officer
Nevada Dept. of Motor Vehicles
775-684-4779
 

DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
DTOM is it OK if I cut and paste your excellent letter to pursue this matter?

RENO/SPARKS people I am away for the summer but will visit every once in awhile, in the meantime do not open carry at the Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

You only imagine you have the right, you actually really do not have the right.

If you do not believe me Reno/Sparks folks, you can go there yourself and ask Leslie - she is the very attractive supervisor of the

Washoe County Senior Service Center on 9th Street between Sutro/Wells.

for those of you who are not in Reno/Sparks you can email her at
lemwilliams@washoecounty.us


Yes of course feel free to put your twist on it... be ready to send 5-10 more as some agency's are less responsive than others.
 

chrsjhnsn

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
338
Location
La Paz county, Arizona.
I am not going to make any official complaint about officer conduct.
It was over one hundred degrees and no one wanted to do anything other then get back into an air-conditioned vehicle.
The cops are probably aware that open carry is legal but people are not perfect and get snippy.
Live and let live, all mr moron needed was a reminder that he can go to jail.
The cops have discretion, I want them to use it.

For me the important thing is Washoe county conforming to the NRS WRT firearms law.
DMV has open carry, Washoe County needs to join the 21st Century too.
 

Vegassteve

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
1,763
Location
Las Vegas NV, ,
I am not going to make any official complaint about officer conduct.
It was over one hundred degrees and no one wanted to do anything other then get back into an air-conditioned vehicle.
The cops are probably aware that open carry is legal but people are not perfect and get snippy.
Live and let live, all mr moron needed was a reminder that he can go to jail.
The cops have discretion, I want them to use it.

For me the important thing is Washoe county conforming to the NRS WRT firearms law.
DMV has open carry, Washoe County needs to join the 21st Century too.

Well complaining here isnt going to to get you that last paragraph done. I could give 2 hoots if it was 100 or 50. The cops were wrong and need to be called on it. Why did you take the time to complain here? Why not take the time and complain where it needs to be done?
 

NAVYBLUE

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Messages
109
Location
Peoples Republic of North Las Vegas
Up until two weeks ago I was an independent contractor for Washoe County.
I was a driver for the Gerlach senior citizens ( bus driver )

I had been planning on quitting, so the whole affair was more amusing then critical- but it showed how much work
we have to do in educating our public officials.

I had only one passenger, a total moron.
Being that I was driving a county vehicle I decided to open carry ( what is that law again 202. 36 something? )
The bus overheated and Mr Moron got his underwear in a twist, I parked in the shade and waited for the supervisors to come and get the bus.
While we were waiting Mr Moron decided to get upset at me carrying, he produced a leather sap and was waving it around saying "now I have a weapon too, I'll crack your skull if you make a move"

I told him "that's nice, please put it away" ... He kept persisting in being threatening with his stupid little sap ( really, I carry a full size .40 caliber glock - he is a big guy but I can stop him in his tracks )
After 3 times of him acting like a Dbag I told him "one more time I call the cops".
Naturally he had to go ahead and threaten me again, so I called the cops.

RPD got there the same time as my supervisors so I had to explain the situation about ten times to everyone, being outside I had my vest on so my sidearm was concealed - I had notified dispatch that I was armed and RPD was really cool about it, they didn't even look at my CCW or the sidearm.

BUT ... one of the cops told me that "you have a CCW, you can't open carry, I can take your gun you know" instead of arguing with him I simply said "OK"
My supervisor said "no guns are allowed on County property" instead of arguing with her I simply said "OK"

The reason is my purpose was to get out of the hundred plus heat and go home, I wasn't there to protest or educate.

They repeated this misinformation over and over again, I guess they were expecting an argument, or could tell I didn't believe a word they were saying ...
I needed a ride back to Gerlach and if I didn't get one I would have spent the night in Reno with no money ( I live paycheck to paycheck ).

They got me back to Gerlach and I quit the job, like I had been planning on all along.

So now I do want to educate Washoe County and my former supervisors, BTW they're all pretty nice folks and I harbor no ill will towards them
( and my ex supervisor is freaking HOT, so hot that supermarkets don't let her near eggs because they automatically hard boil in her presence, alas, I'm ugly and she is married )

So my plan is (if you kind folks can help me plan and execute this plan ) is to educate Washoe county senior center workers and supervisors and get them to change the signs on their doors to conform with the signs at the DMV.

( hey Reno/Sparks folks, when did they change the signs at DMV to "no concealed" instead of "no firearms" & who made that happen? )

So, what do we do? Do we walk into the senior center and wait to get told to leave? Anyone is allowed inside, they allow non seniors to buy lunch there ( it's cheap too )
should we meet up for a cheap lunch and wait for them to call the cops or is there a county attorney we can contact to explain our case to and he/she can send a memo out to the staff at the senior center that open carry is perfectly legal if there are no metal detectors at the doors?

I really want all gov't buildings to have the same signs the DMV has so they are no longer allowed to treat us like second class citizens.

My (28) years in the NAVY taught me many things. One was you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. I have stood up to senior officers when they were wrong to protect my sailors and still managed to retire as an E9.

In my civilian life I have had retail employees fired for poor service and attitude by documenting exactly what happened and forwarding a letter to the district manager and corporate headquarters with the caveat that they solve the problem or I invite every person I know to no longer shop there.

I am in the process of writing a letter to Subway to correct the attitude of a Subway employee I encountered in Texas on our trip back east for the summer. I could of just "looked the other way". Fortunately, I didn't stand for incompetence in the NAVY, my civilian jobs and in the retail world since I am now retired.

By not filing a police complaint you are allowing two things to happen/possibly happen. A lazy cop gets to keep on becoming lazy and incompetent and maybe ruining someone's life down the road. And Mr Moron know thinks he can pull an illegal sap out and threaten people. The next time he does it he may been on the receiving end of a high velocity projectile.

I can't look the other way. Some people in the past have accused me of not being a tactful person sometimes. GUILTY as charged.

To me, tact is telling people to go to hell and make then look forward to the trip. Sorry, I would have been firing off letters to the police chief, town manager/council and the NV state attorney's office.

Comedian Ron White is wrong. You can fix stupid. Write the letters.

NAVYBLUE
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I am not going to make any official complaint about officer conduct.
It was over one hundred degrees and no one wanted to do anything other then get back into an air-conditioned vehicle.
The cops are probably aware that open carry is legal but people are not perfect and get snippy.
Live and let live, all mr moron needed was a reminder that he can go to jail.
The cops have discretion, I want them to use it...

I can't agree with this. You have the discretion as to what you want to do. But, here are my thoughts.

I fix air conditioners for much of my living. I am on rooftops in 120 degrees all day long. I have zero sympathy for a cop who needs to stay in the air conditioning. Drink water, dress for the occasion, and DO YOUR JOB.

We should not tolerate those who enjoy the TITLE of "law enforcement" but refuse to treat it as an actual job description. Despite the "discretion" you give them, it sounds like they did not even give Mr Moron that "reminder," but completely ignored his threats with an illegal weapon to focus on you and your legal weapon because their "discretion" felt it more important.
 
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DVC

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,185
Location
City? Who wants to live in a CITY?, Nevada, USA
We should not tolerate those who enjoy the TITLE of "law enforcement" but refuse to treat it as an actual job description. Despite the "discretion" you give them, it sounds like they did not even give Mr Moron that "reminder," but completely ignored his threats with an illegal weapon to focus on you and your legal weapon because their "discretion" felt it more important.

Concur.

It worked out okay for the OP.

What about for the next guy in this situation?

We have a responsibility to the next guy, to pay back the guys who came before us.
 
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