Flying with Firearms, first timer

Ever since 9-11 and how a person rights are violated to get on a plane, I refuse to be treated like a criminal and therefore refuse to fly. Just drive to Denver. Take all the liquids, guns and ammo you want without being violated.

RedRuger said:

That is what the rules say. In some airports TSA inspection of luggage is in a public area and you can watch them scan and inspect your luggage. In some airports TSA has a private screening room where you can watch them inspect your luggage. In some airports TSA has no public access to the screening area. They will ask you for the key and disappear into the bowels of the airport. You can quote the rules to them if you want. Their response will probably be " OK YOUR LUGGAGE DOES NOT GET ON THE PLANE".

My advise: Give the TSA Agent (and only the TSA agent) your key and make sure that he understands that you know what his name is and what the date and time is.

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I have always used a (non-TSA) combination lock. Then you only have to tell the one guy the combo, and only if he asks (they sometimes don't in my experience).

OC Freedom said:

Ever since 9-11 and how a person rights are violated to get on a plane, I refuse to be treated like a criminal and therefore refuse to fly. Just drive to Denver. Take all the liquids, guns and ammo you want without being violated.

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I literally can't afford to do anything but fly cross country.

Drivers' licensure violates my rights as well. Frankly, considering all those who need to drive to feed their families, I consider this the greater infringement.

marshaul said:

I literally can't afford to do anything but fly cross country.

Drivers' licensure violates my rights as well. Frankly, considering all those who need to drive to feed their families, I consider this the greater infringement.

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You make a good point about licenses.

OC Freedom said:

Ever since 9-11 and how a person rights are violated to get on a plane, I refuse to be treated like a criminal and therefore refuse to fly. Just drive to ....

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Yep. I've racked at least 250,000 driven miles since I quit flying. I take anything I want, and I'm 400 miles away by the time anyone else gets on the plane, if we leave the house at the same time. I don't care how much more it costs.

That said, I've flown many times before I quit, and always took firearms. Indeed, I sometimes got through ticketing more quickly because declaring a firearm must be done with an agent, while the normal sheep had to use the self-serve kiosk.

I had thought I'd seen the 11-pound rule on the TSA pages before, too, but I don't see it now. Regardless, it is still the normal requirement imposed by most airlines, so be prepared. That said, I've flown with much more. They don't take it out and weigh it. They don't even look for it, only the firearm itself; but you are playing the odds.

Airlines can also impose more rules than TSA. Allegiant limited passengers to one handgun that last time I flew, though I don't know if they were actually enforcing it.

sorry folks apparently TSA changed their propaganda on their site...the 11 pound limit is set apparently by individual airline policies as outline by FFA guidance http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_info/?hazmat=4

Pack Safe
Small arms ammunition

Cartridges up to 19.1mm, shotgun shells
Quantity limits: Reasonable amount for "personal use" during a trip. However, international (ICAO/IATA) regulations and some airlines in the U.S. limit this to 5 kg (11 pounds) gross weight per passenger. Check with your airline.
Small arms ammunition includes cartridges up to 19.1 mm (.75 caliber) and shotgun shells. It does not include black powder, smokeless powder, primers, percussion caps, or homemade powder and ball loads for muzzle loading.
Ammunition must be securely packed in boxes or other devices specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ammunition clips and magazines must also be securely boxed so no ammunition is loose or exposed.

sorry for the confusion and i have printed the new TSA propaganda to carry w/me when i fly later this month.

Mac i would give up flying if it wasn't such a longggggg drive to Washington state, then have to drive back a couple of weeks later...sigh

ipse

OC Freedom said:

Ever since 9-11 and how a person rights are violated to get on a plane, I refuse to be treated like a criminal and therefore refuse to fly. Just drive to Denver. Take all the liquids, guns and ammo you want without being violated.

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+1

I just got back from a trip to CO. Over 3000 miles driving there and back and worth every hour in the car to avoid the indignant treatment of the TSA on people. I believe most people have some threshold of personal violation they will not endure to save time. For me personally the current "safety protocols" of the TSA thugs is well beyond it.

OC Freedom said:

Ever since 9-11 and how a person rights are violated to get on a plane, I refuse to be treated like a criminal and therefore refuse to fly. Just drive to Denver. Take all the liquids, guns and ammo you want without being violated.

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I didn't fly for years because of the TSA. However, I have had to buckle down and do it because of work and because of my children. If I can drive instead of fly, I do.

I kind of figured 11 lbs would turn out to really be five kilograms, and the quote above confirmed my speculation.

At least some airlines require ammunition to be packed in its original box. I am told Delta is one of them. One reason I always keep at least one empty box of my personal ammo, though I never seem to fly to a place where my gun is allowed anyway. (I guess in SoCal I *could* take one of my guns that came with a 10-or-less rounder but then I'd have to leave it cased unless in the hotel room anyway, so what's the point?)

SteveInCO said:

At least some airlines require ammunition to be packed in its original box. I am told Delta is one of them.

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I am told their website is easy to find:

We allow small arms ammunition, in quantities not exceeding 11 lbs. (5 kg) per person, as checked-baggage only. The weapon must be securely boxed and intended for that person's own use. More than one passenger may not combine quantities into one package. See more details/guidelines under shooting equipment.
You are responsible for knowledge of and compliance with all Federal, State or local laws regarding the possession and transportation of firearms. For more information about this regulation you can visit the TSA website.

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http://www.delta.com/content/www/en...aggage/before-your-trip/restricted-items.html

AFIAK, "original box" has never been a rule anywhere. What has been a rule (and what actually makes sense) is not that ammunition must be in its original box, but that it must be in an ammo box (a container specifically designed for ammo), with partitions to keep individual rounds separate.

Who, exactly, is gonna be checking to enforce whether ammo is in its "original" box? And how will they know? And what if the ammo is handloads and has no "original" box?

marshaul said:

I am told their website is easy to find:



http://www.delta.com/content/www/en...aggage/before-your-trip/restricted-items.html

AFIAK, "original box" has never been a rule anywhere. What has been a rule (and what actually makes sense) is not that ammunition must be in its original box, but that it must be in an ammo box (a container specifically designed for ammo), with partitions to keep individual rounds separate.

Who, exactly, is gonna be checking to enforce whether ammo is in its "original" box? And how will they know? And what if the ammo is handloads and has no "original" box?

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OK you got me there.

Other rules unenforceable: passengers not allowed to combine loads, gun intended for use by the passenger.

I'd probably still just put the SOBs into their original packaging anyway. It was free.

I put it in a hard sided lockable case. I went to the counter with my hard sided locked case, and said "I need to check a firearm". The attendant asked to verify it was unloaded, had me put the form in the case, and lock it up. I placed it in the green duffel bag, and locked that with my padlock. Then I checked the duffel bag. I will note the magazine with ammo was in the case, separated from the weapon, I was told by the staff this was ok. That is how it was successfully transported.

It was really easy.

Jon

Having traveled a number of times, here's how I go at it:

1. Review to understand TSA policies and procedures. Have a copy with you when you reach the airport.
   [*]Put the unloaded weapon(s) in a lockable hard-sided case with locks only you have the keys/combination to open. TSA locks are not allowed.
   [*]Steps that will make it easier to show that the weapon is unloaded - especially when x-rayed.
   
   • If the weapon is a:
     • semi-automatic
       • lock the slide open
       • put a cable tie through the barrel and out the breach to show that the chamber is empty
     • revolver, flip the cylinder out
   • Do not put the magazines in this locked case with the gun(s):
     • it invites questions about them being loaded
     • if the gun case is "liberated" from the checked bag by a Criminal Entrepreneur, the lack of magazines frustrates the "Liberator", since the weapon is now initially a single shot one
   [*]Check the airline(s) you are flying on:
   
   • To determine if the ammo
     • MUST be in boxes (plastic reload boxes work)
     • can fly in loaded magazines
   • If loaded magazines are permitted, make sure the pouches fully cover the magazine top where the cartridges are visible.
   • The round(s) from the chamber(s)/cylinder(s) must be in a box, not loose
   [*]Secure and protect magazines (separately from the weapon) and ammunition boxes from possible damage.
   [*]Put the lockable hard-sided case with the weapon and the ammo/magazines into a cheap, non-descript bag - with clear labeling outside and inside - for checking in.
   
   • If possible, develop a way to attach - in a lockable way - the hard-sided case to the piece of luggage it has been placed into.
   • The labeling should be limited to:
     • Your Name
     • Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
     • Your personal email address - if you have one
     • NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED
   [*]Other stuff - like shampoo, mouthwash, toothpaste, etc, could be in this checked bag also.
   [*]Have the rules for the airline in hand when you check this non-descript bag at the airport.
   [*]Make sure you have the keys/combinations to the lockable hard-sided case with you and you alone (Per Federal Regulations 49CFR § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals - [url]http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=1f020769f93df9bc371bd1612b0fd309&rgn=div8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9.2.10.6&idno=49) at all times. You will have to open the lockable hard-side case:
   • to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at check in (a signed form/tag indicating that will go in with the weapon(s))
   • if the TSA wants to see
2. Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft immediately to the:
   • airline - NOTE Some airlines - Delta and US Air being 2 - now allow you to track your checked luggage on your I-Phone/Android if you are a Frequent Flier
   • FAA Regional Office
   • ATF Regional Office

Other things to consider:

1. Check www.handgunlaw.us and/or http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html to determine:
   • If you can possess the weapon at all your stops
   • Where and how you can carry at all your stops
   • What are the deadly force rules in each state you are visiting
2. Have a copy of the Don Young Transportation Letter on hand - http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/doj_doc_nyc_air.pdf. This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey.
3. AMTRAK (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am/Layout&cid=1248542758975) is similar to airlines. Key differences include:
   • You must notify the departing station 24 hours before departure.
   • There must be baggage handling of checked baggage at both ends of your trip.
   • Ammunition must be boxed.

MAC702 said:

Yep. I've racked at least 250,000 driven miles since I quit flying. I take anything I want, and I'm 400 miles away by the time anyone else gets on the plane, if we leave the house at the same time. I don't care how much more it costs.

That said, I've flown many times before I quit, and always took firearms. Indeed, I sometimes got through ticketing more quickly because declaring a firearm must be done with an agent, while the normal sheep had to use the self-serve kiosk.

I had thought I'd seen the 11-pound rule on the TSA pages before, too, but I don't see it now. Regardless, it is still the normal requirement imposed by most airlines, so be prepared. That said, I've flown with much more. They don't take it out and weigh it. They don't even look for it, only the firearm itself; but you are playing the odds.

Airlines can also impose more rules than TSA. Allegiant limited passengers to one handgun that last time I flew, though I don't know if they were actually enforcing it.

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Glad to hear that others have done the same thing as myself and quite flying. My family thinks it's an over reaction, but where do you draw the line with these violations to your liberty.

Hello Folks,

Flying with a firearm was a non-issue for me! I flew with a S&W Sigma SW40VE in a Pelican Case with 2 empty mags in the case, with the factory chamber plug insterted. Pelican case was locked with two standard Masterlock padlocks. Threw the case and a box of 50 rds of HP ammo and 2 boxes of 50 ea of FMJ's into the luggage bag everything protected by layers of clothing. I got to DIA early, about 2 hours before my flight which was scheduled to leave at 7:15AM.

Sequence of events at my arrival:

Got to DIA around 5:30 AM

Went to SW Airlines baggage check in

At the head of the line (not much of a line, maybe 10 folks ahead of me) met a SWA agent, told her "I would like to declare a firearm" and she said "Oh no problem! Sir, you can go to this line and they will be happy to help you out!" Which was great, because this line was empty! :banana:

They asked me to fill out a little card with my name, addy, phone number and sign the back.

Didnt even weigh the bag after asking how much ammo I had (about 2 lbs was my response)

Then they made a call for someone to walk my bag to a TSA screening room close to the check in area. So walked over with the person walking my bag.

Got there to the little TSA screening room, which just cracked me up when we (and my firearm walker, lol) got there.

Being early in the morning and no one else there, I saw the laziest TSA agent! She was upset I distrupted her from her sitting down and texting! Who could she be in the middle of a texting frenzy at this time of the morning?!! She shrugged, then threw my bag on the x-ray machine, looked at her montitor and shrugged, a look like "oh well, screw it" (shoulders up and down!) and logged it in her little log book and placed a sticker over the luggage tag. Done, handed the luggage to the security guy to take back to check in Yes it was a foreign creepy looking dude walking my bag back to check in after he said you're free to go to security...

my gun was in the bag when I arrived at my desitnation, no one had messed with it. Once I arrived in Phoenix, I immediately went to the baggage claim and stood near the hole where the conveyer belt spits the bags out. Then grabbed my bag and walked to a nearby bench and opened it up. The case was in there!

I will post up the return story tmw or the next night, a bit different but no issues. I had a great time in AZ and OC'ed everywhere! Saw quite a few folks OC'ing, about 4-5 folks everyday! Wish I did take my XDM 5.25"! I will take it in a few months when I go back!

Blessings,

Keens

keen, glad you had an uneventful check in, creepy foreign baggage handler notwithstanding & flight...

ipse

I've flown once with a firearm, and I know lot's of people do it all the time with no problems. But I have to relate my story just so people know what can happen.

I flew into Atlanta with my Glock in a pelican pistol case. I was flying Frontier I believe.

When I got to Atlanta, Frontier's special handling office in the baggage claim area was closed. I went to the ticket counter which was also closed, but there were two women working there. I asked them where I could pick up my special handling bag. They looked pretty stumped. They called someone and told me that it should be up in about 15 minutes.

I waited for about 20 and then I see this guy who looks like a baggage handler off the tarmac come strolling into the area with a blank stare on his face. He is carrying my case and wheeling another long gun case. I flag him down and tell him that he's got my case. He hands over my case and then tries to hand over the rifle case as well. I tell him that the rifle case isn't mine, and offer my baggage claim receipt to match up with what's on my case. He seems pretty confused, pretends to check the receipt and tells me have a nice day.

WTF? I wonder what kind of rifle I could have had.

I wonder if it isn't easier to ship your gear to yourself at your destination, sending it a couple days early so you arrive at the same time? Is there a rule against this or anything? Anyone?

Maverick9 said:

I wonder if it isn't easier to ship your gear to yourself at your destination, sending it a couple days early so you arrive at the same time? Is there a rule against this or anything? Anyone?

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You can't send handguns through the USPS.

Technically you are supposed to declare guns and ammo when sending it through UPS or Fedex, and it's expensive when you do.

So you can, but is it easier? Well I guess it depends.

bomber said:

You can't send handguns through the USPS.

Technically you are supposed to declare guns and ammo when sending it through UPS or Fedex, and it's expensive when you do.

So you can, but is it easier? Well I guess it depends.

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I read a bunch of posts on Google after posting that said you could send to yourself for under $50, using UPS or FedEx. Just adding a possible option to flying with your gear and the danger of having it stolen by TSA.