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Birmingham: Open Carry is brandishing (Sounds like we need to attend another meeting)

Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
Thanks to all who came out. It was very hot but all went well and we all had a very nice time. :D

There was a reporter on hand from the 'patch' who seemed to know her guns. Unicorns do exist :p

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
Small_Arms_Collector said:
Sorry I couldn't make it, I had intended to, but work just got in the way (That, and a network crash prevented me from getting the directions anyway.).
Click to expand...

Well they do have these new fangled things called maps, some gas stations even will let you look one for free if you ask nicely :p

No worries it all worked out, and I got to witness the worlds fastest police response time. In the time it took me to walk from my car at the meter to where the others were (50 feet) a car was on scene for a MWAG call? 30-45 seconds tops:rolleyes: I may look into moving to this fine city with service like that ;)

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 
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Yance

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
568
Location
Battle Creek, MI
A good article, seems as though they just stuck to the facts and they did a decent job quoting those that spoke to them.

I did have to leave a few comments however because the two sheeple that commented on that article needed to hear some common sense.
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
ken243 said:
Troy Patch article. Good job everyone. Nice to see the police showed up. If this event with no arrests even with the police showing up isn't a argument for the case being thrown out I don't know what is.

http://troy.patch.com/articles/with-pistols-and-a-rifle-group-gathers-to-support-troy-teen
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Yes and this is why the video will not be posted until we get an ok from sean's lawyer. The stop didn't last long but was full of questionable statements and flawed logic from the PD side of things. Upto and including a comment that we should let them know where we would be going and when. I felt like saying that I planned on wearing boxer shorts to bed, so should I call them and let them know about that too?:rolleyes:

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 
Michigander

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
Glock9mmOldStyle said:
Negative, but there was a request for CPLs from two who had their holsters partially covered by their shirts.

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
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Evil and I were talking about this last night.

I would suggest that the proper procedure in such a circumstance is to first determine whether it's a request, or if you're being detained. If it's a full blown detention, show them the ID asap. If it's a request, then decline and say nothing more.

While the disclosure law obligates people to show IDs and CPLs, it also doesn't take away the cop's obligation to work within the bill of rights and Terry v Ohio.

So for you to follow the letter of the law, you may have to show ID for an unlawful stop. But you also can go right ahead and FOIA their evidence and notes and such about the stop, and determine if they had any RAS or not.

If they don't have any legit RAS, it becomes minimally time to complain to the PD's internal affairs, as well as to the MSP for an unlawful LEIN access. Will they do anything? Probably not, the thin blue line hates taking out its trash. But they'll still have to follow up on it, and make up some stupid reason about why it was justified, which will at least provide entertainment.

Point is, if they're going to screw with you through the legal system, at least return the favor.
 
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SVI7

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
21
Location
SE MI
Thank you!!!

Just wanted to thank everyone that joined the rally on Friday. It was a smaller turnout than before, but that is OK. It was nice meeting and talking to everyone that was there. Hopefully the gatherings Monday and Wednesday will also be successful. Based on our run in the with police last time, we should probably send them a written letter explaining to them exactly where we will be and at exactly what times so that we don't cause them any undo worry...:rolleyes:
 
DocWalker

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
SVI7 said:
Just wanted to thank everyone that joined the rally on Friday. It was a smaller turnout than before, but that is OK. It was nice meeting and talking to everyone that was there. Hopefully the gatherings Monday and Wednesday will also be successful. Based on our run in the with police last time, we should probably send them a written letter explaining to them exactly where we will be and at exactly what times so that we don't cause them any undo worry...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Telling the goverment about every "legal" thing you do sounds more like Germany 1935-44 than the USA. Just a thought.
 
DanM

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
DocWalker said:
SVI7 said:
Based on our run in the with police last time, we should probably send them a written letter explaining to them exactly where we will be and at exactly what times so that we don't cause them any undo worry...
Click to expand...

Telling the goverment about every "legal" thing you do sounds more like Germany 1935-44 than the USA. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

The batteries are dead in your sarcasm detector.
 
M

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
Michigander said:
Evil and I were talking about this last night.

I would suggest that the proper procedure in such a circumstance is to first determine whether it's a request, or if you're being detained. If it's a full blown detention, show them the ID asap. If it's a request, then decline and say nothing more.

While the disclosure law obligates people to show IDs and CPLs, it also doesn't take away the cop's obligation to work within the bill of rights and Terry v Ohio.

So for you to follow the letter of the law, you may have to show ID for an unlawful stop. But you also can go right ahead and FOIA their evidence and notes and such about the stop, and determine if they had any RAS or not.

If they don't have any legit RAS, it becomes minimally time to complain to the PD's internal affairs, as well as to the MSP for an unlawful LEIN access. Will they do anything? Probably not, the thin blue line hates taking out its trash. But they'll still have to follow up on it, and make up some stupid reason about why it was justified, which will at least provide entertainment.

Point is, if they're going to screw with you through the legal system, at least return the favor.
Click to expand...

What is this disclosure law you're talking about? There is no specific law on disclosure. The only one I can think of is the one pertaining to concealed carry.

If you're stopped there is nothing wrong with handing over your CPL. I have nothing to hide because I lawfully carry my firearm. Too many people are just looking for UNECESSARY confrontation. I'm rearely bothered by police for open carry. If the kid just handed over his ID this whole fiasco could have been avoided. Looking at it from the officers perspective Combs looks way under 18. I see it no different then a kid like him sitting in a bar with a beer in front of him & drinking it. If an officer has reasonable suspecion the person is breaking the law by under age drinking he has a duty to ask for the kids drivers license. Not only the officer would have the duty but even a manger for the bar. In Michigan you're required to have a valid ID showing you're over 21 regardless of how you look which makes it pretty open to ask for ID & if it can't be produced the person should be asked to leave the bar. This goes with the similar law stating an individual MUST be 18 to carry a firearm. He surely made the stupid decision to not comply. 1 check of an ID and he would have been on his way. Instead he got what he asked for a confrontation to make a spectacle of himself in front of all a crowd of people. I'm all for open carry of any firearm and am not against the fact he legally carried the rifle (based on what I read) but the way he handled the police was not smart.

People here tend to rah rah every time a confrontation occurs but fail to think about the situation and how to properly handle it. I support open carry I don't support people who don't use common sense in dealing with the police.

Mike
 
M

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
mikestilly said:
What is this disclosure law you're talking about? There is no specific law on disclosure. The only one I can think of is the one pertaining to concealed carry.

If you're stopped there is nothing wrong with handing over your CPL. I have nothing to hide because I lawfully carry my firearm. Too many people are just looking for UNECESSARY confrontation. I'm rearely bothered by police for open carry. If the kid just handed over his ID this whole fiasco could have been avoided. Looking at it from the officers perspective Combs looks way under 18. I see it no different then a kid like him sitting in a bar with a beer in front of him & drinking it. If an officer has reasonable suspecion the person is breaking the law by under age drinking he has a duty to ask for the kids drivers license. Not only the officer would have the duty but even a manger for the bar. In Michigan you're required to have a valid ID showing you're over 21 regardless of how you look which makes it pretty open to ask for ID & if it can't be produced the person should be asked to leave the bar. This goes with the similar law stating an individual MUST be 18 to carry a firearm. He surely made the stupid decision to not comply. 1 check of an ID and he would have been on his way. Instead he got what he asked for a confrontation to make a spectacle of himself in front of all a crowd of people. I'm all for open carry of any firearm and am not against the fact he legally carried the rifle (based on what I read) but the way he handled the police was not smart.

People here tend to rah rah every time a confrontation occurs but fail to think about the situation and how to properly handle it. I support open carry I don't support people who don't use common sense in dealing with the police.

Mike
Click to expand...


Ps: I don't believe some of those false charges will hold up such as brandshing but some may. This could have been a win win had he simply handed over an ID. It would have been nice for people to see that it's lawful and there was nothing to be alarmed about but instead he got arrested and made us look bad.
 
S

SVI7

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
21
Location
SE MI
Trial date

Hi guys, I just got word that Sean's trial may not be the on the 11th anymore. There is a case going on right now that might not end in time. So for anyone that was interested in attending it, I will keep you up to date with when it will actually happen.
 
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