Improperly (I believe) asked to disarm at Workhouse Arts Center

skidmark said:

Would you wannabe attorneys please stop trying to make a molehill out of this mountain.



Why did they lease the property? Did they lease it so they could operate as an agent of the County (substitute for Parks & Recs), or did they lease the property for the purpose of making money using assets of the County? (Non-profit or for-profit, if they are making money by using County assets they end up as an agent, if only as one that generates income for the County.)

Either way they are classified as an "authority or ... a local governmental entity, including a department or agency" as enumerated in 15.2-915. Preemption applies.

Cuccinelli's exemption to preemption applies to event-specific rental of local government assets, as opposed to leasing for the purpose of daily operation of the property.

We know an attorney who could be talked into charging what SCOTUS seems to believe are "reasonable" fees in bringing this to court for equitable relief.

stay safe.

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This one will be both interesting and educational!

skidmark said:

Would you wannabe attorneys please stop trying to make a molehill out of this mountain.



Why did they lease the property? Did they lease it so they could operate as an agent of the County (substitute for Parks & Recs), or did they lease the property for the purpose of making money using assets of the County? (Non-profit or for-profit, if they are making money by using County assets they end up as an agent, if only as one that generates income for the County.)

Either way they are classified as an "authority or ... a local governmental entity, including a department or agency" as enumerated in 15.2-915. Preemption applies.

Cuccinelli's exemption to preemption applies to event-specific rental of local government assets, as opposed to leasing for the purpose of daily operation of the property.

We know an attorney who could be talked into charging what SCOTUS seems to believe are "reasonable" fees in bringing this to court for equitable relief.

stay safe.

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I'm sorry, Skidmark if I offended you discussing this topic. Since I am not a lawyer I'll refrain from future discussions...

JohnM15A said:

I'm sorry, Skidmark if I offended you discussing this topic. Since I am not a lawyer I'll refrain from future discussions...

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Don't let Skid hurt your feelings John. He sounds gruff but that's just exasperation at having to type:lol:

peter nap said:

Don't let Skid hurt your feelings John. He sounds gruff but that's just exasperation at having to type:lol:

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I'm fairly tough so he didn't hurt my feelings. Doesn't hurt to get him to consider others feelings...

I guess I don't understand that discussing this makes a "molehill out of a mountain"?

Without more information about the relationship between the Arts Center and the county we don't know if a wrong has been committed.

I stand ready to donate to go after this if it turns out to be a "wrong". For once I can be present for court hearings and such support as necessary.

JohnM15A said:

I'm fairly tough so he didn't hurt my feelings. Doesn't hurt to get him to consider others feelings...

I guess I don't understand that discussing this makes a "molehill out of a mountain"?

Without more information about the relationship between the Arts Center and the county we don't know if a wrong has been committed.

I stand ready to donate to go after this if it turns out to be a "wrong". For once I can be present for court hearings and such support as necessary.

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He's just herding the discussion toward the watering hole that isn't dry.:uhoh:

After you've been here a while, you'll appreciate his candor....I think!

OMG! I need peter nap to explain why I really should not have been considered socially inappropriate?

Somebody with a camera go to the window and get pictures of the pigs flying before the temperature drop grounds them. http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/s.html

1 - folks need to know the difference between a "lawyer" and an "attorney" so they can follow what I say to figure out what I mean. A "lawyer" is a person who is knowledgeable/learned in the law. An "attorney" is one that practices law - in the same vein that kids practice the violin in hopes of one day getting it right and playing at Carneige Hall.

2 -it is puzzling why folks spend so much time and effort attempting to build and bolster the County's defense, instead of working up the case against them. It must apparently have something to do with still practicing, as opposed to having gotten it right.

3 - the waterinh hole I am pointing to not only is not dry (as in devoid of water) but has a full-service bar with light snacks, towel carriers of either persuasion to rub sunblock on your (socially acceptable) exposed parts, and a 500-yard firing range with everything from a .22 to a .956 JDM. Why folks would prefer to go to Moe's Bottled Water and Necktie Stand is a mystery to me.*

stay safe.

* - ask your grandfather if he remembers the story of the two brothers selling bottled water and neckties in the desert.

skidmark said:

OMG! I need peter nap to explain why I really should not have been considered socially inappropriate?

Somebody with a camera go to the window and get pictures of the pigs flying before the temperature drop grounds them. http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/s.html

.

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Well...maybe I did forget to mention that sometimes....with tremendous justification....make a post or 20 that some narrow minded people, most with CHP's or dog hunters or Novites....might consider "Socially Inappropriate".

It was a minor detail though!:uhoh: I am trying to show my kinder, gentler self though which I've found quite easy. It doesn't take up much space!

jeff_h said:

From reading the above noted Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...orces-change/2012/06/19/gJQAzPD5oV_story.html

"The Fairfax County Park Authority took over most of the land, and there is now a golf course, a high school and private homes. The Lorton Arts Foundation leased the 55-acre workhouse site on Ox Road and set to work preserving and reinventing the complex. County officials joined the foundation in celebrating the Workhouse Arts Center’s opening in 2008."

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After the Lorton Correctional Complex closed, 2324 acres were sold to Fairfax County, Virginia in 2002 for 4.2 million dollars. The County undertook a comprehensive adaptive re-use study for this prime location. In 2002 the Lorton Arts Foundation put forward a plan to transform the former prison facility into a cultural arts center and, in July 2004, the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors approved the rezoning of a 55-acre portion of the former correctional facility to become the Workhouse Arts Center. In 2005, the site was nominated to the National Register of Historic Places. After several years of planning, adaptive reuse and rehabilitation of the historic buildings, the Workhouse Arts Center, a project of the Lorton Arts Foundation, opened to the public in September 2008.

Link: http://workhousearts.org/about-workhouse-arts-center

Thundar said:

After the Lorton Correctional Complex closed, 2324 acres were sold to Fairfax County, Virginia in 2002 for 4.2 million dollars. The County undertook a comprehensive adaptive re-use study for this prime location. In 2002 the Lorton Arts Foundation put forward a plan to transform the former prison facility into a cultural arts center and, in July 2004, the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors approved the rezoning of a 55-acre portion of the former correctional facility to become the Workhouse Arts Center. In 2005, the site was nominated to the National Register of Historic Places. After several years of planning, adaptive reuse and rehabilitation of the historic buildings, the Workhouse Arts Center, a project of the Lorton Arts Foundation, opened to the public in September 2008.

Link: http://workhousearts.org/about-workhouse-arts-center

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The purchse price was $1850 per acre. What a deal, and still they loose money.

Very Interesting! Sorta success, and an clarification

While I was attempting to track down ownership, and drafting a letter to the CEO of the Workhouse Arts Center, I got this via a posting I had published on their page on facebook:

Workhouse Arts CenterTess xxxxxx. On behalf of the Lorton Arts Foundation, Inc., I am using this method (as I do not have access to the "open carry" forum) to extend our apologies for having inappropriately stated that weapons are not permitted on the Workhouse Arts Center campus. Our policy is to be consistent with Commonwealth of Virginia law, which under the circumstances would not have prohibited you from carrying a weapon last Saturday evening. Would appreciate your sharing this note with "open carry" forum so all interested understand that I have acknowledged a mistake. . . . John Mason, President & CEO, Lorton Arts Foundation.


This doesn't answer the question about who owns, who operates, or the formal status of the site, but it does clarify that they will follow state law, and I plan to be there this Saturday night (the 13th) for the bluegrass concert.

(It also doesn't acknowledge that his guy flat-out lied to me by stating the policy had been "vetted at all levels".)

Tess said:

While I was attempting to track down ownership, and drafting a letter to the CEO of the Workhouse Arts Center, I got this via a posting I had published on their page on facebook:

Workhouse Arts CenterTess xxxxxx. On behalf of the Lorton Arts Foundation, Inc., I am using this method (as I do not have access to the "open carry" forum) to extend our apologies for having inappropriately stated that weapons are not permitted on the Workhouse Arts Center campus. Our policy is to be consistent with Commonwealth of Virginia law, which under the circumstances would not have prohibited you from carrying a weapon last Saturday evening. Would appreciate your sharing this note with "open carry" forum so all interested understand that I have acknowledged a mistake. . . . John Mason, President & CEO, Lorton Arts Foundation.


This doesn't answer the question about who owns, who operates, or the formal status of the site, but it does clarify that they will follow state law, and I plan to be there this Saturday night (the 13th) for the bluegrass concert.

(It also doesn't acknowledge that his guy flat-out lied to me by stating the policy had been "vetted at all levels".)

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No it doesn't Tess, but it does put them on the ropes. Start working the ribcage now!

Is an apology going to be enough?

They said it was a "mistake"! To begin with the apology should have come from the idiot that confronted her and explain to her where he went wrong and how he came up with the "vetted" story.

https://www.facebook.com/LortonPatch?fref=ts

Tess said:

(It also doesn't acknowledge that his guy flat-out lied to me by stating the policy had been "vetted at all levels".)

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Perhaps that was true, at the time, and they wisely re-vetted and reversed course after you pointed out the law.

KBCraig said:

Perhaps that was true, at the time, and they wisely re-vetted and reversed course after you pointed out the law.

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Really? You believe this?

I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in.

stay safe.

Sounds like an anti-gunner on a power trip gone rouge... So is this a civil rights violation with a suit to remedy?

Imagine asking people to leave if they were of the wrong race?

Tess said:

SNIP (It also doesn't acknowledge that his guy flat-out lied to me by stating the policy had been "vetted at all levels".)

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That's my problem, too. No acknowledgement of the real issues. This is a little different than denying access because your Easter hat clashed with the artwork.

Acknowledged a mistake? Phffft.

We've got an employee making it up as he goes along. Enforcing his personal preferences against an enumerated right. And, lying about the approval.

Sorry, folks. I'm gonna need to see some disciplinary action on this one. White out the employee name if needed, but I'm gonna wanta see a photocopy of a formal reprimand or letter of censure or something. And, telling me its a personnel matter and can't be revealed won't cut it. They can always redact the names.

Citizen said:

That's my problem, too. No acknowledgement of the real issues. This is a little different than denying access because your Easter hat clashed with the artwork.

Acknowledged a mistake? Phffft.

We've got an employee making it up as he goes along. Enforcing his personal preferences against an enumerated right. And, lying about the approval.

Sorry, folks. I'm gonna need to see some disciplinary action on this one. White out the employee name if needed, but I'm gonna wanta see a photocopy of a formal reprimand or letter of censure or something. And, telling me its a personnel matter and can't be revealed won't cut it. They can always redact the names.

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You know darned well you will never see that, so why get all lathered up about it?

What you have a better chance of seeing are the lesson plans for the mandatory training session regarding the agency's response to firearms, and a roster of those that attended the training.

We already know the employee's name. (No, I am not going to scroll all the way back to the OP to get it.) See if his name is on the roster for attending the mandatory training session. If he's on the roster, he's screwed if he screws up again. If he's not on the roster he's screwed for missing mandatory training.

Plus, we have a list of everybody else who attended the mandatory training session - just in case somebody else does something they should not have done.

You want a blood price to be paid. I'm willing to settle for having something in hand that will nail to the wall anybody who tries that stunt again. Personal vendetta or solution to the problem?

stay safe.

It should be great fun to find that guy and waltz by him about 100 times. I hope he got the memo.

Publicity

http://lorton.patch.com/groups/poli...oman-with-handgun-at-saturday-fireworks-event

"I just want them to tell me that it's not going to happen again, because it's county-funded, and because of state preemptive laws they can not prevent firearms out there,"

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VApatriot said:

http://lorton.patch.com/groups/poli...oman-with-handgun-at-saturday-fireworks-event

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It is interesting that the comments seem to be mostly anti. For example, that one person who says firearms shouldn't be carried at "family events".