"Because we're trained"

77zach · Oct 23, 2013

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ce-gun-20131023,0,4940473.story#axzz2iZ8NJWEz

Kalifornia hero injures 3 students during "safety demonstration". Coverage is lacking because it was a hero. Can you imagine if a licensed "civilian" did this?

stealthyeliminator · Oct 23, 2013

Can't wait for all of the people to come in and talk about how only a finger pulling the trigger can cause a long gun to fire.

Can't decide if I hope they're right or wrong in this case.

davidmcbeth · Oct 23, 2013

I've said it before: we train monkeys, not people.

Fallschirjmäger · Oct 23, 2013

77zach said:
Can you imagine if a licensed "civilian" did this?

If a licensed civilian had a firearm secured on his motorcycle and a student managed to cause a discharge .... his name wouldn't be shielded.

Did anyone notice a name that's NOT in the report?

Tamrin Olden said:
A student fired an AR-15 rifle that was mounted on a police motorcycle that was on display during an event for students

Having a loaded firearm present as a part of a display, is just pure negligence and should be treated as such.

OC for ME · Oct 24, 2013

Safety no engaged after round loaded into chamber. The cop is liable for several failures in firearm safety. Unless of course there is no official LEA policy that requires that that type of loaded firearm have the safety engaged.

Fallschirjmäger · Oct 24, 2013

Kids these days play Call of Duty and a host of other games. I saw them come into the shop where I worked and knew almost everything there was to know about a weapon system before they could legally get a learner's permit.

No reason why a kid, even a completely knowledgeable one, couldn't flip the safety on an AR while fiddling with the fire control group.

marshaul · Oct 24, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
we train monkeys

Speak for yourself.

skidmark · Oct 24, 2013

It is noteworthy that none of you have bothered to cite that it was some student that pulled the trigger. I guess that would spoil the "all cops are bad any only do bad things" meme.

The fact that the cop brought a loaded firearm that was not under his immediate control appears to be a violation of Cali law. The odds of anyone being cited for that seem pretty low. We will probably have to waitfor the parents' lawsuits against the cop, the PD, and the school to see how that is dealt with.

stay safe.

marshaul · Oct 24, 2013

You can bet your ass if I let some kid have access to the trigger on my rifle, which ended up discharging and causing injury to THREE kids, I would be criminally prosecuted.

Yet again, we see that certain... animals are more equal than others.

Rusty Young Man · Oct 24, 2013

marshaul said:
You can bet your ass if I let some kid have access to the trigger on my rifle, which ended up discharging and causing injury to THREE kids, I would be criminally prosecuted.

Yet again, we see that certain... animals are more equal than others.

Pfftt. You forget some animals have been more equal than others for quite some time. We're practically at that stage where Napoleon is always right.

OT: would like to see a lawsuit, and hopefully some super-emotional pleas from MOMs

)) for sanctions on the negligent LEO, "for the children".

Fallschirjmäger · Oct 24, 2013

skidmark said:
It is noteworthy that none of you have bothered to cite that it was some student that pulled the trigger. I guess that would spoil the "all cops are bad any only do bad things" meme.

The fact that the cop brought a loaded firearm that was not under his immediate control appears to be a violation of Cali law. The odds of anyone being cited for that seem pretty low. We will probably have to waitfor the parents' lawsuits against the cop, the PD, and the school to see how that is dealt with.

Try post #5
Or post #7
The news report clearly stated that it was a student that operated the trigger. What we (or at lest I) find remarkable is that a police officer was negligent enough to bring a loaded weapon to use as part of a 'display set' and further negligent enough to not have control over his loaded weapon.

It should have been cleared, there is no reasonable explanation for having a loaded weapon as part of a 'display' where kids are assuredly going to touch, prod, and poke.

Fallschirjmäger · Oct 24, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
I've said it before: we train monkeys, not people.

You may want to inform yourself of the difference between teaching and training.

I'd much rather have someone who was trained as an EMT than someone who was merely taught to be an EMT responding to a medical emergency.
As you can see in today's school system, you can teach a student all quarter and they may never learn anything. Training inherently produces a skill set.

eye95 · Oct 24, 2013

Fallschirmjäger said:
You may want to inform yourself of the difference between teaching and training.

I'd much rather have someone who was trained as an EMT than someone who was merely taught to be an EMT responding to a medical emergency.
As you can see in today's school system, you can teach a student all quarter and they may never learn anything. Training inherently produces a skill set.

When I was a teacher, the difference between education and training was explained this way: When your kid attends health class do you want him or her to get sex education or sex training?

Fallschirjmäger · Oct 24, 2013

You can teach all day, but only training gives feedback.

Would you rather someone stand at the front of a class and teach how to draw from a holster (as a mild example) with PowerPoint presentations, an open book test and flash cards....
...or...
... someone one who trained the students to draw from the holster?

marshaul · Oct 24, 2013

Fallschirmjäger said:
Training inherently produces a skill set.

And how do you reconcile this statement with, say, the NYPD?

Fallschirjmäger · Oct 24, 2013

marshaul said:
And how do you reconcile this statement with, say, the NYPD?

77zach · Oct 24, 2013

Wsiting to see if the hero gets a paid vaca or not.

OC for ME · Oct 25, 2013

skidmark said:
It is noteworthy that none of you have bothered to cite that it was some student that pulled the trigger. I guess that would spoil the "all cops are bad any only do bad things" meme.

The fact that the cop brought a loaded firearm that was not under his immediate control appears to be a violation of Cali law. The odds of anyone being cited for that seem pretty low. We will probably have to waitfor the parents' lawsuits against the cop, the PD, and the school to see how that is dealt with.

stay safe.

I guess it all depends on how you define bad. You appear to be stuck on one commonly used definition of bad.

A "show and tell" day.

Cite the law you imply that the cop violated. Unless of course the word "appears" absolves you of providing a cite. Though, I am just as lazy as you are on this point and will take your word for it.

Firearms Iinstuctor · Oct 25, 2013

I believe that the weapon was attached to a MC it would be nice to know what type and make of mount it was in.

It would be nice to know the ages of the so called children.

It would be nice to know it they worked the action chambered a round and pulled the trigger.

99 percent of the time when LEO carry their long guns in a vehicle mount its empty chamber with magazine inserted.

A proper vehicle mount doesn't allow for access to the trigger.

The officer should have removed the mag as the MC was being used as a display. The Children should not have been playing with it.

So what really happen failure of the mount or improper mount, failure of the officer to remove the mag, failure of the children to not behave properly.

Most likely a combination of all.

Granted not having a mag in or having a empty mag for show would have been most prudent on a display vehicle.

FlyBoy276 · Oct 25, 2013

OC for ME said:
I guess it all depends on how you define bad. You appear to be stuck on one commonly used definition of bad.

A "show and tell" day.

Cite the law you imply that the cop violated. Unless of course the word "appears" absolves you of providing a cite. Though, I am just as lazy as you are on this point and will take your word for it.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=25001-26000&file=25200-25225

..but when you read further down, you notice:

25205. Section 25200 does not apply if any of the following are
true:

(e) The person is a peace officer or a member of the Armed Forces
or National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or
incidental to, the performance of the person's duties.

I bet they try to get him off using the above.

"Because we're trained"

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