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Is this fourm Totalitarian ?

Bersa.380

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
270
Location
South of Disorder in Rouge Canyon, , USA
Totalitarian .. .. ..

Being, or imposing a form of government (or rule) in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, company, website and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed: "A totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)
 

flb_78

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
544
Location
Gravel Switch, KY
Totalitarian .. .. ..

Being, or imposing a form of government (or rule) in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, company, website and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed: "A totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)

No. This is a private entity that can implement any rules that the owner decides. We are free to come and go as we please if we don't like the rules.

I even post this after having my wrist slapped by a moderator for an improper posting.
 
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devildoc5

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
791
Location
Somewhere over run with mud(s)
I apologize as I was not going to respond to this thread, however I have lost my self control.

You are using the same argument many use about the way the US does things. Like not allowing illegals to get welfare and allowing illegals to obtain drivers licenses and so on and so forth (same statement you made about this forum)

To which I will respond to you the same way I respond to them: "If you dont like it get out"

Not to sound rude but you have a choice to be here, and when you sign up there is a ToS thing that you are SUPPOSED to read and then you click "I have read and understand the terms of service of this forum"

If you no longer agree then I guess the only option left is to find a place that you DO agree with their ToS.....
 
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Beretta92FSLady

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
5,264
Location
In My Coffee
This site is not even close to Totalitarian. I think this site is pretty good at letting the individual's rule themselves, unless they go to far...which I have definitely done from time to time. This site is specific to Open-carry--hence, opencarry.com and should contain OC or at the least CC discussion IMO.

I am a member of another site that shuts threads down quick the second tension begins to build--they aren't even totalitarian.

JEEZ, so many people are so eager to start throwing Totalitarian, Communist, Socialist, etc. around these days, that these words that used to have meaning have become nothing more than a knee-jerk response to a disagreement.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
Totalitarian? No, not at all...

Do they selectively enforce the terms of use? Yes, with annoying frequency.

Do they lock or delete threads that are on-topic but may be perceived as "too controversial"? Yup. now and then...

So they have certain topics that they don't like people to discuss, and do they censor, lock or delete threads that attempt to provide legitimate research on these topics? Yes, I've had this happen to me SEVERAL times.

Are there some topics that are essentially the 2A version of "Godwins Law violations" on this forum, even if they ARE directly OC, or 2A related? Yes, without a doubt.

How do we deal with arbitrary or selective enforcement of Moderator Powers on a forum like this?

Present a logical argument when "warned" by the admins. But DO NOT do it by PM. ALWAYS address accusations of "terms violations" in the forum--NOT through PM. NEVER answer such private accusations in private. Abridgement of the 1A is just as intolerable as restricting the 2A, and although this forum is touted as being "one issue focused", we should NOT tolerate the abridgement of ANY of our Constitutional rights by self-appointed authorities, in the name of "safety" or "politeness"...

Things are generally pretty open here. But now and then, some of us DO seem to touch a nerve with the admins.

All that we "little people" can do is hope that their sense of what is right prevails over their lawyer training when this matters come up in the future...
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
Present a logical argument when "warned" by the admins. But DO NOT do it by PM. ALWAYS address accusations of "terms violations" in the forum--NOT through PM. NEVER answer such private accusations in private. Abridgement of the 1A is just as intolerable as restricting the 2A, and although this forum is touted as being "one issue focused", we should NOT tolerate the abridgement of ANY of our Constitutional rights by self-appointed authorities, in the name of "safety" or "politeness"...

That's governmental authority. John and Mike can bounce you or anyone else off of this forum with no recourse available to you. It's a private server.
 

OlGutshotWilly

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Snohomish, WA, ,
Bersa and Dreamer,
It's like I tell my kids........My wife and I own the house, we pay the mortgage and the bills. We don't have a democracy in our house. We make the rules and enforce them. If you don't like it, pack your bags and move out.
There is no freedom of speech in our house. You will speak to your mom and I with respect, answer Yes Sir/Mom or No thank you sir/Mom. There is discipline in our house and if you break the rules you will be spanked, grounded or have privileges taken away.

This forum is Mike and John's house, they own it and pay the bills, and our conversations are as if we were in their living room. They can ask us to leave at any time.

They are not "self appointed authorities", they OWN this house. Very similar to the Castle doctrine I believe. My house is my castle, owned by me, not "we the people".
 

Tomas

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
702
Location
University Place, Washington, USA
Standard Reply

As an Admin of several other sites, this is the short bit of boilerplate I usually drop in threads like this:
________________

"Freedom of Speech" is not a term that applies to any private site that allows posting by members. The US First Amendment only applies to not allowing the US government to censor most speech. As soon as you step into a private site like this, you are in someone else's livingroom or office, not in a public space, and the owner - the person paying the bills - can set any rules they want and a poster can either agree or leave. No problem, but just trying to correct an all too common error of perception about the internet. (Also note that if any site is not in the US, the rules can change drastically...)
________________

That's the Real World™, folks.
 
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6

69Charger

Guest
We are totalasomethin over on the 1911 forum, but not here. :) :)
1911s rule (ha ha ha )

Have a nice day.


Dave
 

Bersa.380

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
270
Location
South of Disorder in Rouge Canyon, , USA
First and foremost, this was just a question, OK !

And .. .. .. I agree; if I don't like it here I am free to post elsewhere.

At the same time we have an interesting "fine line" at OCDO.

Any one can jump on this site and read what’s being said and never become a member, open to the public, like a park. Therefore I take heed to what I say.

Also, it is monitored and posts can be deleted and/or closed by the owners, therefore I take heed to what I say.

Hence, is this a public site ? YES ! Is it a private site ? YES !

If it is public they can't put a stop to our 1A.
If it is private they can put a stop to our 1A.

Do you see the possible controversy ? Hmmm, it's not fully public or private.
 
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daddy4count

Regular Member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
513
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
You're talking about something that exists on an etheral plane and not physically in the United States. The location of the servers, site owners and members come into play. But technically the words posted on the Internet are not subject to the US Constitution.

There is and is not freedom of speech on the Internet. You are free to say what you want... but whomever is in control of the data is free to trounce you.

As for privacy... there is no such thing online.
 

David.Car

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
1,264
Location
Spokane, Washington, USA
This website is like your home.

You invite people in to have conversations. Except, since it is your house, you get to decide what is okay to talk about and what isn't. Anyone who disagreees is free to GTFO.

I have no problem with that.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Hence, is this a public site ? YES ! Is it a private site ? YES !

It is not a public site. A public site is one owned by a government entity. It is a privately owned site open to public access assuming you follow the rules and terms of service.

Even sites that you pay for can throw you out.

Technically, this thread is off topic therefore is against the rules and the moderator can throw you out.

However, he can throw you out because he doesn't like you.

Kinda like employment law in WI, I can fire any employee at any time for no reason whatsoever. I cannot fire them for being part of a protected class (race, age, etc).
 

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
The easiest way to tell that the answer is "No" is the fact that this thread is still here.

A truly totalitarian entity would crush any dissent. :)

We just want to try and keep the conversation on-topic and be good ambassadors for gun rights.

Since this thread is a valid question about the rules of the forum ... it stays ... even if it is potentially critical. THAT is why we are not totalitarian. :)



John

Totalitarian .. .. ..

Being, or imposing a form of government (or rule) in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, company, website and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed: "A totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)
 

gsx1138

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
882
Location
Bremerton, Washington, United States
The easiest way to tell that the answer is "No" is the fact that this thread is still here.

A truly totalitarian entity would crush any dissent. :)

We just want to try and keep the conversation on-topic and be good ambassadors for gun rights.

Since this thread is a valid question about the rules of the forum ... it stays ... even if it is potentially critical. THAT is why we are not totalitarian. :)



John

Ahh, that's just what you want us to think. You're not fooling anyone! ;)
 

ChuckUFarley

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
256
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
Totalitarian? No, not at all...

Do they selectively enforce the terms of use? Yes, with annoying frequency.

Do they lock or delete threads that are on-topic but may be perceived as "too controversial"? Yup. now and then...

So they have certain topics that they don't like people to discuss, and do they censor, lock or delete threads that attempt to provide legitimate research on these topics? Yes, I've had this happen to me SEVERAL times.

Are there some topics that are essentially the 2A version of "Godwins Law violations" on this forum, even if they ARE directly OC, or 2A related? Yes, without a doubt.

How do we deal with arbitrary or selective enforcement of Moderator Powers on a forum like this?

Present a logical argument when "warned" by the admins. But DO NOT do it by PM. ALWAYS address accusations of "terms violations" in the forum--NOT through PM. NEVER answer such private accusations in private. Abridgement of the 1A is just as intolerable as restricting the 2A, and although this forum is touted as being "one issue focused", we should NOT tolerate the abridgement of ANY of our Constitutional rights by self-appointed authorities, in the name of "safety" or "politeness"...

Things are generally pretty open here. But now and then, some of us DO seem to touch a nerve with the admins.

All that we "little people" can do is hope that their sense of what is right prevails over their lawyer training when this matters come up in the future...

very good post, i appriciate your level headedness.
 
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