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OC in Schools Afterhours

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
I would ask the club to sign a document stating that they assure your safety and are fully responsible for you and yours safety / well being, while attending the meetings and while on the property. Do so in a friendly manner. They of course will NOT sign it. Then you can ask them: "if they are not going to take responsibility for your safety, then why shouldn't you?" Watch the baffled looks as the try to spin their way out of a valid question to their irrational response to your legal OC??? Then ask them if you carried concealed (don't it would break the law) would they be okay? If they say CC is fine ask them why a pistol out of sight is okay? It would be smart to carry a voice recorder at minimal or even better a stealth video recorder so you can post their responses

I think you will probably find that you will either have to give up your right to self defense or face more issues from them and the School district.

It's not right or lawful, but they get away with it most of the time in my honest opinion.

Yup. Logic nearly always wins. Until it dosen't,,,,,

I DID give them a copy of MSP Update 86 and they understand that I am acting Legally. they are just "asking me not to". Seems I stirred a hornets nest. I just wanted to make sure that as they are not even the School but just a renter of the gym afterhours - that their asking is also meaningless.

This is my first negative encounter and I want it to go as well as possible for the benefit of all OCers.

The choice is really up to you. You could comply, and make nice with everyone. Or you could continue with your ultimately lawful activity, and keep trying to reason with them, which would be my advice. Sometimes it just takes time. It took an entire year for me to be able to pick up my daughter before I was more widely accepted, or at least ignored.

Tell them that you're uncomfortable with them not carrying and you are politely asking that all members, that are legaly able, carry an openly visible pistol. When they say they can't do that ask them why another members discomfort is given more consideration than yours.

Bronson

Good point!
 

HKcarrier

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
816
Location
michigan
No offense to Stainless, but maybe DEEP pockets and a "Boy Scout" type to take on this issue.



Well yes, I agree, there may be another 'victim' that might be better suited to take up the claim... but either way... would be nice to see those types get their butts spanked for trying to abuse the system.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Well yes, I agree, there may be another 'victim' that might be better suited to take up the claim... but either way... would be nice to see those types get their butts spanked for trying to abuse the system.

Yes it would. Hopefully, someone else's battle with Waterford will allow me to exercise my rights someday. I've taken this as far as I can, and had a little help doing it.
 

CV67 PAT

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Davisburg, MI
Yes it would. Hopefully, someone else's battle with Waterford will allow me to exercise my rights someday. I've taken this as far as I can, and had a little help doing it.

Stand up and fight your own battles.

I'm not pretty, rich, nor do I have a BMW. But I go where you have been told not to without incident.

No offense to Venator, but a reputable lawyer probably would have been a better choice as a representative at that argument you call a meeting that was conducted with the Waterford officials. Taking your "buddy" demonstrated right then and there that you had no intentions on challenging their unlawful strong arm tactics.
 

CV67 PAT

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Davisburg, MI
I tried, but couldn't afford to pay a lawyer to come out.

Maybe you got priced out of consideration.

It is a frequent tactic to price a customer at such a high rate that they will not accept the terms. But if they decide to, the price makes the grief worthwhile.
 
Last edited:

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
I have carried while attending an ham radio club meeting in Lapeer. I chose to cc, even though i oc on a daily basis. They hold their meetings in the Emergency Operations Center in the basement of the 911 central dispatch center. Although i realize that they cannot legally keep me from carrying, the county could decide to no longer allow the ham radio club to meet at their facility.

I understand you can't cc at a school, but the concern about change of venue may still be valid. If you push the issue, the school may decide to no longer allow the ham radio club to hold meetings on school property. I think it would be a black eye if one person's behavior were to get the ham radio organization kicked out of their current meeting place.

just my $0.02

I support your decision either way. i just wanted to share this concern of mine.
 

CV67 PAT

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Davisburg, MI
I have carried while attending an ham radio club meeting in Lapeer. I chose to cc, even though i oc on a daily basis. They hold their meetings in the Emergency Operations Center in the basement of the 911 central dispatch center. Although i realize that they cannot legally keep me from carrying, the county could decide to no longer allow the ham radio club to meet at their facility.

I understand you can't cc at a school, but the concern about change of venue may still be valid. If you push the issue, the school may decide to no longer allow the ham radio club to hold meetings on school property. I think it would be a black eye if one person's behavior were to get the ham radio organization kicked out of their current meeting place.

just my $0.02

I support your decision either way. i just wanted to share this concern of mine.

Your point is quite valid. However in your case you can exercise discretion that the OP can't. He has to decide whether to disarm or not.

Don't know that it would necessarily be a "black eye" for the club to loose it's current venue. It could present the possibility of their being relocated to one that is less restrictive.
 

kpearce

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
20
Location
, ,
Maybe you got priced out of consideration.

It is a frequent tactic to price a customer at such a high rate that they will not accept the terms. But if they decide to, the price makes the grief worthwhile.

Melissa has quoted and offered reduced rates, for anyone in Michigan, based on a case by case basis (financial need) for firearms issues. She has handled a few cases for free (pro bono). Its just like shopping for a car, you don't go to the dealership without cash. If you need financing both the car dealer and Melissa offer this.

Taking an knowledgeable firearms attorney to Waterford would have been the thing to do, but the CADL and other case may have screwed us to.
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Melissa has quoted and offered reduced rates, for anyone in Michigan, based on a case by case basis (financial need) for firearms issues. She has handled a few cases for free (pro bono). Its just like shopping for a car, you don't go to the dealership without cash. If you need financing both the car dealer and Melissa offer this.

Taking an knowledgeable firearms attorney to Waterford would have been the thing to do, but the CADL and other case may have screwed us to.

The CADL Situation and Waterford Schools are completely different animals (CADL is not a PFZ by MI Law).
 

CV67 PAT

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
76
Location
Davisburg, MI
Melissa has quoted and offered reduced rates, for anyone in Michigan, based on a case by case basis (financial need) for firearms issues. She has handled a few cases for free (pro bono). Its just like shopping for a car, you don't go to the dealership without cash. If you need financing both the car dealer and Melissa offer this.

Taking an knowledgeable firearms attorney to Waterford would have been the thing to do, but the CADL and other case may have screwed us to.

Melissa got thrown under the bus by stainless1911.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Melissa has quoted and offered reduced rates, for anyone in Michigan, based on a case by case basis (financial need) for firearms issues. She has handled a few cases for free (pro bono). Its just like shopping for a car, you don't go to the dealership without cash. If you need financing both the car dealer and Melissa offer this.

Taking an knowledgeable firearms attorney to Waterford would have been the thing to do, but the CADL and other case may have screwed us to.

Sorry if I'm a bit naive but Melissa who. I gather that she's an attorney but where is she based out of and what's her last name? Never know if I'll need a good firearms attorney.
 

kpearce

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
20
Location
, ,
The CADL Situation and Waterford Schools are completely different animals (CADL is not a PFZ by MI Law).

I know, but I was referring to the resources being diverted to an issue that we really didn't need to have now. We have a (R) Lansing, and this situation is causing problems with any bills (PFZ Elimination) that we really needed to devote our limited resources to. It is an old trick of the opposition, simply bankrupt the other side and when they no longer have the money to fight they will have to give up!

I spoke to our NRA Lobbyist at the NRA convention in PA this summer and he indicated to me that this CADL thing has really done damage to the carry movement. He told me that it was unlikely that any important bills for us would be passed, due in part to this issue.

We have to pick our battles and in my opinion this was one we should have not started. At that convention Ted Nugent told a large audience that open carry and the people who do it are stupid. Nearly everyone applauded. I don't know if he speaks for the NRA but it isn't looking to good for their support. I don't know where the other organizations stand on open carry.

In short if someone who is even remotely associated with us is going to be a test case then they should at least run it by the people they are going to need for help or support before doing it. And NOT on a public forum. Everyone on the other side reads these forums or has someone scanning them daily, believe me I know this is fact.

We must organize into one well oiled machine with good leadership to get the changes we need. This does not mean we lose our individual forums or beliefs. Just like the Army, Navy, Air Force, etc. They remain individual services but unite for the common cause.

Ken
 

mpearce

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
83
Location
Commerce Twp, ,
I have a question that I think is easy but want a second opinion to make sure. I attend an Amateurr Radio Club meeting which uses an Elementary School for its monthly evening meetings. I started to OC back in August and now "someone is scared by it and has asked the club to request I leave it behind"....

The simply answer to me seems that the answer is, I dont need to. I attend with my kids and it is late at night and therefore safer to be armed.

Am I correct that there is nothing they can really do other than harrass me? Or should I back away? My kids would rather continue the meetings if we can.

thanks, I know it is probably very simple but thought I should ask you guys.

I made sure that they got the MPS update. They admit that they know the law now! I just want to make sure that the School will still not be an issue and if not... That other newbies like myself never get intimidated by the fear-mongers out there.

I would be careful with pushing this issue until you know how the local judges would rule on the issue. There is one judge in Oakland County, who may rule that you are limited in the concealed carry of your firearm to only the dropping off and picking up of a student of the school and firearm is only concealed by being in the vehicle and that schools are weapon free zones, where even open carry is prohibited.

In addition, I would have at least a couple of thousands of dollars in a bank account ready to fund a defense in the event that you are charged with violating MCL 28.425o. An appeal may cost you even more money. Until we have a clear written opinion on the issue from the appellate courts, the issue of open carry on school property is subject to the ruling of local judges in the various district and circuit courts.
 
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