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Racism and Gun Ownership

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
I believe that more people should reach out to blacks, get them involved and enjoying the rewards and they might start to abandon the party of oppression.

Doesn't "racism" begin with basing beliefs/actions on race? How about we reach out to everyone? There's no reason to put special emphasis on race(whatever the word "race" means). Let's get more people on our side, race be damned!!

Edit - Looks like Eye95 said this already so interpret this post as a +1
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Doesn't "racism" begin with basing beliefs/actions on race? How about we reach out to everyone? There's no reason to put special emphasis on race(whatever the word "race" means). Let's get more people on our side, race be damned!!

Are you offended by the word "black" or "race" if you are you could be part of the problem. Please spare me the PC carp. Blacks are by government standards over 10% of the population, and for most part vote along the lines of the race 95% democrat. Why do I need to reach out more to people I already share ideals with? Are you saying I should not have dinner, backyard parties and not invite blacks? I should stop talking to my Hispanic friends? I think you should examine your own thoughts?

I am about sick of the constant race card being thrown every time adults attempt a intelligent conversation.:banghead:
 
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georg jetson

Regular Member
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Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Are you offended by the word "black" or "race" if you are you could be part of the problem.

Nope. It's difficult to offend me.

Please spare me the PC carp. Blacks are by government standards over 10% of the population, and for most part vote along the lines of the race 95% democrat. Why do I need to reach out more to people I already share ideals with? Are you saying I should not have dinner, backyard parties and not invite blacks? I should stop talking to my Hispanic friends? I think you should examine your own thoughts.

Relax. You're reading too much into what I posted... I didn't mean to make you defensive.

I am about sick of the constant race card being thrown every time adults attempt a intelligent conversation.:banghead:

No race card fella... just a reminder to not fall into the easy error of poor actions with good intentions.
 
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OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
You cannot beat a dead horse and make him drink, and people are not horses, blacks are not animals. A party of person cannot make any change, by not listening to the one they are trying to change. Communications is the key, and it has to be more than just politics. It means taking an interest in their life, and allowing them to take interest in yours. Building trust and friendship, and then inviting them to participate in liberty. You would have already lost with the mocking "da hood". I ask again how well does that work in the forums?
A party of persons can not affect change where change is not desired. Liberty is not some convoluted concept that must be taught, or explained. Liberty is instinctive, a concept that needs no learning to be practiced. I could be wrong, if I interpret your "invitaion to participate in liberty" correctly, and I'm not sure that I do. Building trust and friendship are laudible goals but are nothing more than a distraction, a hobby.

Liberty minded people need no invitation, just the opportunity. I do not find the opportunity to participate in liberty in "da hood" mainly due to politics.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
some excellent responses so far.
i am really interested in what people think. as i have felt for a while that there was not enough deversity (horrors, a liberal word) in the gun world. just like there needs to be more women in the carry world. now don't get me wrong i still don't want people segregating, i don't think we need the black gun owners coalition. i am a person of many racial backgrounds, and i love my heritage
it's like in NC with still have the PPP, which is a JIM Crowe law from the first of the last century. an absolutely worthless law. i wished we could get rid of


If you meant no offense you should not have thrown the race card.:banghead:

Sidestepping now is not helping you.

WW i don't think anyone was throwing the race card. but i would probably welcome it if they did. it really is something we need to discuss.
BTW, what exactly would the race card be in this situation. would it be don't talk about the races? just curious
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
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White Oak Plantation
some excellent responses so far.
i am really interested in what people think. as i have felt for a while that there was not enough diversity (horrors, a liberal word) in the gun world. just like there needs to be more women in the carry world. now don't get me wrong i still don't want people segregating, i don't think we need the black gun owners coalition. i am a person of many racial backgrounds, and i love my heritage
it's like in NC with still have the PPP, which is a JIM Crowe law from the first of the last century. an absolutely worthless law. i wished we could get rid of <snip>
I agree in part and disagree in part.

Segregation is a right of the citizenry. The "state", nor any other citizen, has a right to dictate to any citizen with whom they may (or should) associate. Liberty demands of every citizen that each citizen has the unalienable right to associate, or not, freely. Do I desire a more homogeneous society as a whole? Theoretically, yes. It would be fantastic if all citizens thought and acted like me. ;)

But, I am a realist and understand that we are a heterogeneous society. Our republic is defined by our heterogeneous society and this makes our republic stronger, not weaker. The down fall of our republic will be due to, in my view, the pursuit of a homogeneous society. There are pockets of "homogeneousity" in our republic because we are a free people and have a right to segregate if we wish. Liberals seek a homogeneous society, dictated by a all too powerful federal government, where all citizens must think and act as they do, or else. Liberals are anti-liberty because they seek to force uniformity of composition upon our great republic. Segregation by individual choice is liberty.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
Obfuscation. You deflect and redirect, time tested debating technique.

My "outreach" is conducted by example, not by words. I cannot bring a horse to water then compel him to drink, I can only show him the water, the horse must then decide.

I know precisely where you are coming from, and what you are trying to get across. We cannot go into inner-city Black neighborhoods because we would not fare well. This is the fault of generations of government oppression towards the Black community, and resentment passed down from genearation to generation in the Black families.

I used to be an Archery instructor (not firearms, but very similiar) for a Boy Scout camp in Nebo, NC. The camp -- rather ignorantly -- brought all of the troops from the inner-city of Charlotte in during the same week. It was obvious that the only reason the majority of the kids were there is because they were probably bribed into being there. I broke up several VIOLENT fights that week, and I could not get through to these kids (majority) no matter how hard I attempted to do so. They had no respect for me regardless of how much respect I tried to show to them.

On the other hand, my best and most memorable students came from these same troops. I basically taught four young-men the entire week, while the rest did as they pleased, while doing nothing that I asked of them (of course, the Camp Director told me to continue to allow them to do as they please; it was obvious he did not care, which infuriated me). Those four young-men were the best students I had ever had, and they were absolutely thrilled to learn the sport of Archery. I still have pictures of one young-man in particular that caught on and couldn't get enough of learning the Sport. Any free-time this youngster had he would be on the range practicing, and asking questions. The sad thing about the situation was that the youngster would get criticized from the others in his troop for wanting to learn. I hope that this one youngster atleast is still enjoying the sport, because if I reached just him I did something good that week.

When one has been raised into believing something is bad or ignorant or just stupid, they tend to shy away from it. This is what we need to change, but it will take many of years and a good amount of personal-time to do so. Not only have family members passed along ill-conceived knowledge, but the government has done plenty to hurt inner-city youth.

These folks feel like the country has forgot about them, and in a way they are right. We might not be able to waltz right into downtown Detroit and start teaching folks about firearms, but we can certainly do so one person at a time. We teach one person, and they teach more. This is how we must accomplish the goal of bringing black AMERICANS to understand and exercise THEIR rights.

Oh, and to everyone: they are Americans just like the rest of us, not African-American. The only way they would be African-American is if they have immigrated from Africa in their life-time. We need to stop labeling races with such non-sense. We are ALL AMERICAN, and that we need to promote.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I know precisely where you are coming from, and what you are trying to get across. We cannot go into inner-city Black neighborhoods because we would not fare well. This is the fault of generations of government oppression towards the Black community, and resentment passed down from genearation to generation in the Black families.

I used to be an Archery instructor (not firearms, but very similiar) for a Boy Scout camp in Nebo, NC. The camp -- rather ignorantly -- brought all of the troops from the inner-city of Charlotte in during the same week. It was obvious that the only reason the majority of the kids were there is because they were probably bribed into being there. I broke up several VIOLENT fights that week, and I could not get through to these kids (majority) no matter how hard I attempted to do so. They had no respect for me regardless of how much respect I tried to show to them.

On the other hand, my best and most memorable students came from these same troops. I basically taught four young-men the entire week, while the rest did as they pleased, while doing nothing that I asked of them (of course, the Camp Director told me to continue to allow them to do as they please; it was obvious he did not care, which infuriated me). Those four young-men were the best students I had ever had, and they were absolutely thrilled to learn the sport of Archery. I still have pictures of one young-man in particular that caught on and couldn't get enough of learning the Sport. Any free-time this youngster had he would be on the range practicing, and asking questions. The sad thing about the situation was that the youngster would get criticized from the others in his troop for wanting to learn. I hope that this one youngster atleast is still enjoying the sport, because if I reached just him I did something good that week.

When one has been raised into believing something is bad or ignorant or just stupid, they tend to shy away from it. This is what we need to change, but it will take many of years and a good amount of personal-time to do so. Not only have family members passed along ill-conceived knowledge, but the government has done plenty to hurt inner-city youth.

These folks feel like the country has forgot about them, and in a way they are right. We might not be able to waltz right into downtown Detroit and start teaching folks about firearms, but we can certainly do so one person at a time. We teach one person, and they teach more. This is how we must accomplish the goal of bringing black AMERICANS to understand and exercise THEIR rights.

Oh, and to everyone: they are Americans just like the rest of us, not African-American. The only way they would be African-American is if they have immigrated from Africa in their life-time. We need to stop labeling races with such non-sense. We are ALL AMERICAN, and that we need to promote.

+1 Thank you!
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Of all my visits over the last 18 years to the gun ranges around here, I think I have seen two blacks (or for those who are PC, African-American) at them.....however, I have seen many many many Orientals shooting. It's great to have conversations with them and encourage them to continue shooting. Most were practicing just for home defense.....it's a start! OBTW, I also speak/encourage with the whites, too. :)

Just a note; Blacks are 4.1% , Latinos are 3.7% & Asian are 1.9% of the population.

The Asians (Orientals) are usually ecstatic when someone discusses shooting with them, especially if they are new to the sport.


Bottom line, I try to encourage all who want to shoot and make them feel welcome to the sport.

Unfortunately, Racism will always be around socially, educationally and politically. :(
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
<snip> I still have pictures of one young-man in particular that caught on and couldn't get enough of learning the Sport. Any free-time this youngster had he would be on the range practicing, and asking questions. <snip>
Excellent!! I applaud your efforts even if it only benefitted a small few. You indeed found a horse that would drink when brought to the water. As you correctly point out, it is now up to that few to spread the word. Sadly, it seems, that they may indeed encounter many horses that when led to the water will not drink.

+1 to you Sir.
 

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
Segregation is a right of the citizenry.
SELF-segregation anyway.

Randy Weaver is a stupid, hateful little man, but he's a stupid hateful little man who went off in the middle of nowhere to avoid Black people and didn't bother anyone.

Essentially, a Whit racist decided to NOT bother people of other races. Try as hard as I can, I've never been able to imagine a down side to that. "Be my friend or I'll blow your head off" is a really bad philosophy, and an ESPECIALLY bad one for government.

On the other hand attempts to marginalize and oppress people of different backgrounds by denying them public accommodations and services is NEVER good, and is ALWAYS a tool used to grab and or maintain power over those groups.
 

Freedom1Man

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
20 acres and a mule.

They have been conditioned to never take care of themselves and to only rely on handouts from the government.

It's pretty simple. The ones who want to take care of themselves are ridiculed by those who want the government because they realize that as more of them become independent the government might not give them as many handouts anymore.

A great example of differences.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126833862 <----This a mostly white community. They rebuilt on their own.

Hurricane Katrina was a "racist storm" look at at the mostly black community. Government handouts all around.

That is evidence that racism is not wrong. Bigotry still is wrong, and yes you can have racism without bigotry.
 

eye95

Well-known member
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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
SELF-segregation anyway...

Disagree. Any kind of segregation on the part of individuals (not the government) is a right. It is called the right of association.

I think it is stupid and immoral to segregate based on certain irrelevant criteria, such as race, but a right nonetheless.
 

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
Messages
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Location
mayberry, nc
SELF-segregation anyway.

Randy Weaver is a stupid, hateful little man, but he's a stupid hateful little man who went off in the middle of nowhere to avoid Black people and didn't bother anyone.

Essentially, a Whit racist decided to NOT bother people of other races. Try as hard as I can, I've never been able to imagine a down side to that. "Be my friend or I'll blow your head off" is a really bad philosophy, and an ESPECIALLY bad one for government.

On the other hand attempts to marginalize and oppress people of different backgrounds by denying them public accommodations and services is NEVER good, and is ALWAYS a tool used to grab and or maintain power over those groups.

sorry to disagree with you DEAN, but Randy Weaver was just a individual, a separatist. he was not a white supremest (spelling ?). that was what the Gov. portrayed him as , so the public would be on their side.

i work a lot in cemeteries, and i am always amazed that there are "black cemeteries". my usual response is ,"i thought all cemeteries were green,how in the world can one be black. ". in which i usually get a blank stare back.
 

Deanimator

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Sep 21, 2007
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Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
Disagree. Any kind of segregation on the part of individuals (not the government) is a right. It is called the right of association.

I think it is stupid and immoral to segregate based on certain irrelevant criteria, such as race, but a right nonetheless.
So then if all of the grocery stores in town decide not to serve Black people, I have a duty to starve?

How about government facilities? If Walmart can deny me service or make me use a separate restroom, why can't city hall?
 

Deanimator

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Messages
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Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
sorry to disagree with you DEAN, but Randy Weaver was just a individual, a separatist. he was not a white supremest (spelling ?). that was what the Gov. portrayed him as , so the public would be on their side.

i work a lot in cemeteries, and i am always amazed that there are "black cemeteries". my usual response is ,"i thought all cemeteries were green,how in the world can one be black. ". in which i usually get a blank stare back.
YOU said "supremacist", NOT me.

Weaver is, or at least was a racist. There's simply no OTHER reason to be a White, Black or Asian separatist. As I said, that's his right. And he chose to express that racism in a way that didn't harm others.

To reiterate, if somebody doesn't like being around X group, and rather than work to actively harm them, he goes off into the middle of nowhere to avoid them, there's simply NO downside, apart from a purely theoretical one on his part.

I care how people ACT in ways that harm me or innocent third parties. If the BATF hadn't entrapped him, and the FBI murdered two members of his family, I'd have never known his name OR his beliefs. Lon Horiuchi was always a greater threat to me than Weaver EVER was.
 
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