• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Maybe women will have to reg. for selective service..

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Hunter, who requested a roll-call vote on the measure, ended up voting against his own amendment. The amendment passed 32 votes to 30 votes, with strong support from female committee members.

Interesting...
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I personally think if women want equal rights and equal pay they should have to register just like the men.

Michael

I think that women now have = pay and, of course, more rights than us lowly men.

Service guarantees citizenship !

Want to learn more?
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I think that women now have = pay and, of course, more rights than us lowly men.
41220161710156.jpg

Service guarantees citizenship !

Want to learn more?
Robert Heinlein was no dummy.
 

325rto

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
93
Location
Fayetteville, NC
They got what they wanted, now step up and enjoy. This coming from an old Airborne Infantry type (I have the back, knees, and ankles to prove it).
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
I suppose that if one views "women" as a homogenous glob synonymous with "radical feminazi who hates all men", and if one ignores the likely effect on the readiness of our armed forces of integrating equal numbers of women as men into combat positions it might be easy to gloat about "women" getting the downside of what they've demanded all these years.

But as the father of daughters (and sons), whose great-grandmother worked to defeat the ERA in Utah specifically because she and her daughters recognized that equal rights before the law should not be blind to biological and psychological differences between the sexes, I am just old fashioned enough to think it is a pretty pathetic nation that would even consider drafting women so long as able bodied men remain available to defend the country and community.

Even if strict physical standards were upheld and applied equally--and history suggests strongly they won't be, because if they are the vast majority of women won't be admitted to the military period, much less to physically demanding combat or combat support roles (how much do crates of ammo or even MREs weigh?) and virtually zero would be admitted to elite units--there are still the questions of how sexual tension disrupts unit cohesion.

Ironically, one of the rare combat roles where woman may actually offer unique capabilities might be in some of the special forces where other skills or even just being a woman might offer advantages sufficient to offset the lack of physical ability relative to male members of the unit and where high levels of training may mitigate the sexual issues. Similarly, the role of field interrogator/translator in regular units might be an area where women could offer unique benefits. Women might have equal or even superior physical traits for flying aircraft as they can having higher resistance to g-induced blackout. But the moment they get shot down we have a really bad situation. And in any event, drafting women seems unnecessary for our nation.

Charles
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
While I believe it to be a bad idea all the way around, the whole draft at all that is.

I believe if someone demands equality, they should have to eat the cost of it.

Welcome to the sewers and the military.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
While I believe it to be a bad idea all the way around, the whole draft at all that is.

I believe if someone demands equality, they should have to eat the cost of it.

Again, I think relatively few women have actually demanded the femi-Nazi equivalency.

It is a shame that some would lump all women into one category and then take glee in decent, feminine women being punished.

It is actually a lot like what gun grabbers do: Lump both criminal and LAC together; pass laws based on criminal mis-conduct; and they exult in the fact that the much hated LAC gun owner (who are the only ones affected by gun grabber laws) will suffer.

How many femi-Nazis will ever report to the draft if required? It will be the decent, regular women of the nation who will not run off to Canada.

Charles
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
And in any event, drafting women seems unnecessary for our nation.

Service guarantees citizenship !

Want to learn more?

citizenship.jpg

begin rant

Yes, Heinlen had it right. IMHO, all natural born People of this Country should do a two year period of Active Federal Service. No, not just Military Service, but Active Federal Service in a post office, hospital, police station, somewhere to benefit the Nation. This gives everyone ownership of the Nation, and full Citizenship. Want to lay out and not contribute? No worries, no Vote, no Federal benefits of any kind. Citizenship is a Verb and all should participate, not just sit on the sidelines and complain about how the "system" does not work. You want to make America great again?? Participate in America

end rant
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
View attachment 13079

begin rant

Yes, Heinlen had it right. IMHO, all natural born People of this Country should do a two year period of Active Federal Service. No, not just Military Service, but Active Federal Service in a post office, hospital, police station, somewhere to benefit the Nation. This gives everyone ownership of the Nation, and full Citizenship. Want to lay out and not contribute? No worries, no Vote, no Federal benefits of any kind. Citizenship is a Verb and all should participate, not just sit on the sidelines and complain about how the "system" does not work. You want to make America great again?? Participate in America

end rant

PLUS 1

I also have advocated the young adults, upon graduation from HS must immediately (no exemptions) serve 2 years in either a CCC type endeavor, military service, or peace corp...all w/o their little electronic gizmos...i was a bit more generous and felt their payment would be a paid year at a local Community College of their choice.

btw, fail to graduate from HS you lose your vote, governmental support & EBT privileges, etc., you get PG..better figure out how you are going to pay the prenatal, delivery costs, as well as have a darn good job to pay for the little darlings.

ipse
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
View attachment 13079

begin rant

Yes, Heinlen had it right. IMHO, all natural born People of this Country should do a two year period of Active Federal Service. No, not just Military Service, but Active Federal Service in a post office, hospital, police station, somewhere to benefit the Nation. This gives everyone ownership of the Nation, and full Citizenship. Want to lay out and not contribute? No worries, no Vote, no Federal benefits of any kind. Citizenship is a Verb and all should participate, not just sit on the sidelines and complain about how the "system" does not work. You want to make America great again?? Participate in America

end rant
TSA? IRS? ATF...ect?

As far as the military and becoming citizens thing, that was for those who were "citizens" of US territories...the Philippines comes to mind.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
Yes, Heinlen had it right. IMHO, all natural born People of this Country should do a two year period of Active Federal Service. No, not just Military Service, but Active Federal Service in a post office, hospital, police station, somewhere to benefit the Nation. This gives everyone ownership of the Nation, and full Citizenship. Want to lay out and not contribute? No worries, no Vote, no Federal benefits of any kind. Citizenship is a Verb and all should participate, not just sit on the sidelines and complain about how the "system" does not work. You want to make America great again?? Participate in America

Make it universal with options over than the military and I'll probably not complain too much. I'm not against community service. I'm against potentially drafting women into combat positions. I'm against anything like Vietnam where so many with means were able to avoid the draft legally while so many without means had no alternative.

Frankly, barring some kind of national service requirement (which I don't see passing anytime soon), we ought to eliminate the selective service registration. Reinstitute it if it is ever needed. But it hasn't been used in decades and it is time to get rid of it.

I'll even accept some term of national service in lieu of paying income taxes (for some other term) while retaining the right to vote, serve on a jury, etc. As far as I'm concerned, those who don't own property in a given community have no business voting in that community, especially not on long term bond issues. I also figure those who are taking more out in welfare payments than they are putting in, ought to forfeit the vote that year. A couple years of full time national service could count for 5 or so years of tax payments.

Charles
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Make it universal with options over than the military and I'll probably not complain too much. I'm not against community service. I'm against potentially drafting women into combat positions. I'm against anything like Vietnam where so many with means were able to avoid the draft legally while so many without means had no alternative.

Frankly, barring some kind of national service requirement (which I don't see passing anytime soon), we ought to eliminate the selective service registration. Reinstitute it if it is ever needed. But it hasn't been used in decades and it is time to get rid of it.

I'll even accept some term of national service in lieu of paying income taxes (for some other term) while retaining the right to vote, serve on a jury, etc. As far as I'm concerned, those who don't own property in a given community have no business voting in that community, especially not on long term bond issues. I also figure those who are taking more out in welfare payments than they are putting in, ought to forfeit the vote that year. A couple years of full time national service could count for 5 or so years of tax payments.

Charles
You're not paying the income tax nor is your earnings the subject of the income tax.


Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
You're not paying the income tax nor is your earnings the subject of the income tax.


I've heard that a lot. Never had anyone who claimed it who was willing to actually demonstrate that he was openly not paying income taxes on W2 reported income and not going to prison because of it.

Lots of folks live in self imposed poverty and claim they are tax exempt. Others claim a lot of dubious (business or other) deductions and eventually get burned. Some fly below the radar for quite some time before the IRS catches up.

I'd love not to lose 20% of my income to various IRS taxes. But I've never seen claims such as yours hold up.

And don't bother with your oft-repeated challenge to "show [you] the code that makes me liable for income taxes." I'm not going to plow through volumes of tax code or argue about the definition of terms. I've seen too many tax protestors end up bankrupted, homeless, and in prison. Whether the courts are properly applying statute, or whether they are "rigged" and misapplying consistently makes no material difference to the guy who loses it all.

So either start providing a lot more details on how one goes about legally not paying taxes to the IRS on W2 income while also not getting liens, garnishments, and criminal proceedings, or please stop posting your emphatic assertions.

Charles
 
Last edited:

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I'll even accept some term of national service in lieu of paying income taxes (for some other term) while retaining the right to vote, serve on a jury, etc. A couple years of full time national service could count for 5 or so years of tax payments.

Charles

I believe you have a good addition to the platform my friend. No taxes for the five years after your National Service. Helps get you started. With the greater number of People participating in their .gov, it will cost less to run it.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
I believe you have a good addition to the platform my friend. No taxes for the five years after your National Service. Helps get you started. With the greater number of People participating in their .gov, it will cost less to run it.

There is great benefit in some community service. I think something that helped instill a sense of real ownership rather than just entitlement would be great. That said, I don't expect those folks are going to work for free. So not sure the costs go down much.

My thought wasn't to exempt anyone from taxes they would otherwise owe. It was allow them to vote for some period of time during which they otherwise would not have been eligible to do so for lack of paying taxes (presumable for lack of income on which taxes were due).

I believe one of our major problems is that the electorate has realized they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury without having to contribute anything to the treasury. To a large extend voting is really helping to decide how much and how to spend money. Even when it comes to seeming non-fiscal matters like criminal law, there is an element of "for which behavior are we willing to spend money to investigate, prosecute, and punish?"

It makes no sense that we should be allowing those who do not contribute to the upkeep of the society to have an equal voice in determining how that society is run. Of course, it also makes no sense to me that we should allow those who can't find their own nation on an unlabeled globe, should get equal voice in helping to set foreign policy.

But we have constitutional amendment against poll taxes, and a very nasty history of literacy tests being used for blatant racial discrimination. And just as governments tend not to voluntarily surrender power, neither do the masses. So probably nothing to be done except to try to educate the masses a little better. If only the schools were not so bad...

Charles
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Just one of many sites.
The stereotypes are wrong. Let's look at the facts, starting with who actually served in Vietnam.

http://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm
Vietnam, or any foreign war, is a poor example to justify compulsory service to the nation. If you pay your taxes you are serving the nation. Being productive is serving the nation.

Those who call for compulsory service are anti-liberty.
 
Top