Question regarding the "1000 foot rule" around schools....

M-Taliesin said:

Howdy Folks!
At the risk of being redundant; because I know some have heard this before, but I think bears repeating:

"Most of the stuff we worry about never happens."

When it comes to the 1,000 foot rule, so long as you are in your car and passing through or going about your business without knowing you're within that 1000 feet of a school, on your own property, etc; don't fret about it so much. Why give yourself ulcers over something that never seems to come up except in the presence of a more overt violation of law.

In other words, there really ain't much 'stand alone' enforcement of the 1000 foot rule. Is it possible some cop that missed his doughnut one morning might make trouble? Yeah, it is possible, but highly unlikely. Your odds of being hit by lightening are far better.

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Here's the reason I bring it up. Like I said I live 250' from a high school. I know it for a fact. Everyone in our neighborhood knows it. So say I'm walking the kids to the park near my house. The closest little park to my house is still only 600' from the school. Heck, the community swimming pool is 400' from the high school and only 200' from the elementary school. Anyway, I walk the kids to the park and grumpy fussy anti-gun neighbor starts to try to intimidate me into giving up my guns. I'm a polite and amicable person. I explain my rights in a nice way but my neighbor doesn't care. Calls the police. So we end in a situation where neighbor starts claiming all kinds of crap about me and the cops are trying to diffuse. I know nothing will happen of it cause I'm not breaking the law, but somehow this 1000' law comes up. Now neighbor knows the law and next time they see me, cops are out again... etc, etc. It hasn't happened and probably won't. (Although my next door neighbor is an FBI agent btw, lol) I was just curious to know if it was an actual law or just a myth that grew from some old law that existed in the 50's or something.

What it sounds like is the 1000' thing is a federal only deal. So if they REALLY wanted to press the issue they'd have to bring in Feds.

In any case, I don't want to lose my CHP because stupid neighbor is being a bully. I should also add that I'm not worried in the slightest. I'm just not the worrying type. More trying to prepare myself so that I know the right answers if the time ever came.

mobiushky said:

What it sounds like is the 1000' thing is a federal only deal. So if they REALLY wanted to press the issue they'd have to bring in Feds.

In any case, I don't want to lose my CHP because stupid neighbor is being a bully.

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Howdy Mobiushky!
Well, the scenario you spin lends some insight to your situation.
I don't think the local cops would be keen on trying to enforce a federal law, but then again, they do it all the time in their losing battle in the war on drugs.
The drug laws are federal, although echoed in state law as well.

But the 1,000 foot rule would likely be difficult to enforce, consume a great deal of an officer's time on a case that could be more trouble for the officer than what it may be worth to him. There is a whole bunch of constitutional problems with the 1000 foot rule to begin with, and if pressed, would likely be trounced in court and rendered ineffectual. But then again, who really wants the opportunity to be the test case in that situation?

Once you have your CCW, the likelihood that a local police officer would want to tangle with the federal stricture would be even more remote.

I believe that I'd work at trying to establish a rapport with the troublesome neighbor and win him over to friendship than combat his sentiments directly.
Perhaps if he got to know you and trust you as a law abiding citizen, the problem would simply clear up without further interference.
Then again, he could simply conduct himself like a Richard and make life miserable regardless.
Then again, we face that prospect from anti-gun folks every single day.

A woman at the supermarket the other day said to me: "I really don't like guns!"
and I answered her by saying, "Well if a criminal came in here and started trouble, you can stand behind me and I'll defend your life!"

I think that took her off guard!

Best of luck with your situation there amigo. I just don't think it would be all that big a fuss. And in the long run, cops would rapidly get tired of telling the neighbor the same thing repeatedly. That neighbor would not find favor in constant complaining about your exercise of your Constitutional rights.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

I'm not sure why people keep confounding this issue, as it's really quite simple. Here in Colorado, Federal law and State law work in concert. Taken together:

1. If you have a current CHP issued by the State of Colorado:
1a. You may CC within 1,000' of a school, but not on school property.
1b. You may have a firearm in your vehicle while on school property, but it must be in a compartment. If you leave your vehicle, the vehicle must be locked.
2. If you do not have a current CHP issued by the State of Colorado, you may not be in possession of a firearm within 1,000' of a school.
3. Regardless of whether you're a CHP holder or not, you may be in possession of a firearm on your own property, as well as carrying to/from your vehicle to your property, even if your property is within 1,000' of a school.*

*This will be scrutinized, i.e. don't expect to get off the hook if you live on one side of a school and you parke on the opposite side just to flaunt the law.

As far as law enforcement is concerned, they could care less about your answers. All they care about is your behavior. If your behavior falls within the law, you're ok. If it contradicts the law, you're not ok.

since9 said:

As far as law enforcement is concerned, they could care less about your answers. All they care about is your behavior. If your behavior falls within the law, you're ok. If it contradicts the law, you're not ok.

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I think this applies to ALL open carry, anywhere.. anytime.. 10 years, 0 negative LEO interactions.. =)

--Rob

I can't speak for everyone but each time I think I've got a handle on it, it just gets muddier. For example, in your section 1a, you state with a CHP you cannot cc on school grounds. But in the following I read it as it's NOT an offense to be cc with chp?

C.R.S. 18-12-105.5 (2011)


(3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:

..

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

The only reason I care is because I disarmed to go to a caucus and a town hall which both took place at the local high school.

since9 said:

I'm not sure why people keep confounding this issue, as it's really quite simple. Here in Colorado, Federal law and State law work in concert. Taken together:

1. If you have a current CHP issued by the State of Colorado:
1a. You may CC within 1,000' of a school, but not on school property.
1b. You may have a firearm in your vehicle while on school property, but it must be in a compartment. If you leave your vehicle, the vehicle must be locked.

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bogidu said:

...each time I think I've got a handle on it, it just gets muddier. For example, in your section 1a, you state with a CHP you cannot cc on school grounds. But in the following I read it as it's NOT an offense to be cc with chp?

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When laws from two jurisdictions overlap, they both apply, but the more restrictive one takes precedence. In this case, if you're CCing with a permit on school property, you're not in violation of Colorado State law, but you're still in violation of Federal law. To remain on the right side of the law, don't CC on school property, with the CHP exception about vehicles.

The guidelines I provided are from my notes. They're not designed to allow me to memorize each and every nuance of both state and federal law. They're designed to be simple guidelines allowing me to carry to the maximum extent possible without violating either state or federal law.

It's good that you're diving into the details, though, as a thorough familiarity with both sets of laws will help you understand the nuances.

Thing of it is, the law is unnecessarily complicated, so much so that I usually translate it into tables. It may be a hold-over from all the regs I had to know while in the Air Force, it really does help keep things straight.

since9 said:

In this case, if you're CCing with a permit on school property, you're not in violation of Colorado State law, but you're still in violation of Federal law.

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Please cite the Federal law than criminalizes carry on school property if the carrier has a license/permit issued by the state.

mobiushky said:

I find nothing in the Colorado laws that says there is a ban on OC 1000' around schools. What I read is there is a ban on OC while on the schools physical property, but that CC permit holders may keep their gun in the car etc, etc. I tried to research the federal statutes. The only thing I found was the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990, which was ruled unconstitutional in 1995. But was re-written and has since been unchallenged. But even that act makes no mention of this 1000' zone. Is that 1000' zone just an urban legend? I can't find it in law. The reason I ask is because I'm 250' from a high school.

Obviously they can't ban me from carrying on my property. And they can't ban me from the house or my car. What about walking down the sidewalk in my neighborhood? Just a legal curiosity on my part.

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Just do it. You can be the first test case for the U.S. Supreme Court to throw out the rewritten Act as still unconstitutional.