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Info LEO's have.

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
We don't have firearm registration; it's perfectly legal to own firearms that the state has no record of us owning.

Uh-huh.

"We're not registering all the firearms. Just the one's we can get away with. So, its not really registration."

You can almost hear the gun-grabber conversation:

GG1 "No, no. We can't possibly require every gun to be registered. It would cause a real uproar. Plus, it would be too obvious."

GG2 "And, we'd never be able to enforce it. Those sneaky gun [bleep]ards sell and trade stuff privately all the time."

GG3 "Well, there must be something we can do!"

GG1 "I know. We can register just the one's sold through licensed dealers! Oh, ho, ho! And, just so we can claim it isn't registration, we'll call it a Sales Record."

GG2 [evil grin] "I like it!"
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
This is why I could never understand someone telling an officer he/she is armed in a traffic stop. It seems an cop worth their salt would already know you are able to be armed and should just assume you are.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
This is why I could never understand someone telling an officer he/she is armed in a traffic stop. It seems an cop worth their salt would already know you are able to be armed and should just assume you are.

Oh, didn't you know? The logic goes something like this.


All cops are trained to assume all traffic stop-ees might be armed and dangerous. This is why you see some standing at the door pillar.

But, not all drivers are armed-and-dangerous.

So, cops tend to forget that a cop can get shot every once in a great while.

So, some states pass laws requiring informing the cop to remind those cops who forget and don't stand at the door pillar as per training and best practices.

And, police have the gun info tied to driver's license records so the cop is reminded when he runs the info in his computer.

And, some gun-rights supporters advocate telling cops so they are reminded of something they already know.

And, some gun carriers think its courteous to remind a cop of something he's supposed to already know.

And, some cops have spun that into a moral obliglation to tell the cop so he is reminded he's supposed to be already assuming it.


So, that's all its about. Reminding cops of something they already know because they forget. And, they forget because its not true that all drivers are armed and dangerous. In fact, way, way more are not armed and dangerous.

So, we're just Post-It Note reminders for cops.
 

Wolfebane

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
113
Location
Whidbey Island
I leave the scanner playing on my laptop during the day as background noise. What a neighborhood we live in. Have a listen. I hear CPL info all the time when a LEO is on approach. Just makes sense to be fore warned. The pivotal point here is the reaction of the LEO to a Legally Armed Citizen, whether concealed or Open Carry.

http://bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/

I used to listen to this all the time when I was attending WWU, but since I graduate I don't because, well, I don't live there anymore. I tried to find one for Oak Harbor PD or Island County related but my net-fu wasn't very good. Anyone know of one for Island County/Oak Harbor?
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Oh, didn't you know? The logic goes something like this.


All cops are trained to assume all traffic stop-ees might be armed and dangerous. This is why you see some standing at the door pillar.

But, not all drivers are armed-and-dangerous.

So, cops tend to forget that a cop can get shot every once in a great while.

So, some states pass laws requiring informing the cop to remind those cops who forget and don't stand at the door pillar as per training and best practices.

And, police have the gun info tied to driver's license records so the cop is reminded when he runs the info in his computer.

And, some gun-rights supporters advocate telling cops so they are reminded of something they already know.

And, some gun carriers think its courteous to remind a cop of something he's supposed to already know.

And, some cops have spun that into a moral obliglation to tell the cop so he is reminded he's supposed to be already assuming it.


So, that's all its about. Reminding cops of something they already know because they forget. And, they forget because its not true that all drivers are armed and dangerous. In fact, way, way more are not armed and dangerous.

So, we're just Post-It Note reminders for cops.

That is very similar to the conversation had about the Socialist Security and Income tax laws.
CC1 (congress critter): Social Security has to be legally voluntary, so how to we force people to pay it?
CC2: We'll rename a couple of sections and make it look like the income tax to confuse people.
CC3: Yeah, then we'll have the IRS do a bait and switch when they don't want to participate.
CC1: Bait and switch how?
CC3: Simple put it in IRS records that he/she didn't pay the income tax (payment is required on payments to nonresident aliens) and then tell the jury that the social security tax is the income tax. People are stupid and will convict their fellow citizens, it's ingenious, plus it will keep people so confused that they will never know what they are paying unless they read the law.
CC2: Yeah, we'll make the law look supper complex and sell news stories so most never read it and it will be worded in such away that unless you understand that it's voluntary, you'll try to force others to comply with it simply to have a job.


Now see how similar the conversations were?

So the good news is that the police record goes to crap if you've gone through mostly private sales.
I believe that I've only purchased 5 guns from a licensed dealer here in Washington.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
That doesn't make sense. My understanding has always been that the paperwork filed for background checks on guns purchased are only kept at the shop as a paper copy, where purchased and only handed over if legally demanded by authorities with a court order. How do they get this info from the shop that sells you the firearm? When they call in to do a NICS check, do they tell them all the info via that system? I can see the CPL being visible to LE, but the firearms info shouldn't be available because the shop never tells them specifically what you purchase.

I also thought there was a voluntary registration form you could fill out, in case your firearms were stolen or the like but it wasn't mandatory.

For any pistol purchased from a Dealer in WA State:

RCW 9.41.090(5) said:
(5) At the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol, the purchaser shall sign in triplicate and deliver to the dealer an application containing his or her full name, residential address, date and place of birth, race, and gender; the date and hour of the application; the applicant's driver's license number or state identification card number; a description of the pistol including the make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number if available at the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol. If the manufacturer's number is not available, the application may be processed, but delivery of the pistol to the purchaser may not occur unless the manufacturer's number is recorded on the application by the dealer and transmitted to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser resides; and a statement that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040.

You are correct about rifles and shotguns but all handguns are subject to "approval" by the local "CLEO". Even if you walk out of the shop with a handgun, upon review by the PD you are found to be "prohibited" due to an un-posted conviction or pending DV charge, etc, etc, they can come get the handgun from you.

The only difference between this and actual registration is that should you sell your firearm and not notify DOL with a transfer form you will still be on their contact list if a crime is comitted. Also, you can also posses firearms that don't show up on their "list".
 
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bmg50cal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
306
Location
WA - North Whidbey/ Deception Pass
I used to listen to this all the time when I was attending WWU, but since I graduate I don't because, well, I don't live there anymore. I tried to find one for Oak Harbor PD or Island County related but my net-fu wasn't very good. Anyone know of one for Island County/Oak Harbor?

I've looked, no one there with a scanner is streaming online.
 
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MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,241
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Why does it make sense to be fore warned? It actually makes no sense to me... do gang member's, felons get CPL's?

I, obviously, did not make myself clear. Yesterday was not my best day and I was distracted, so I apologize to GoGo.

I did mean that it is better for those Legally Armed Citizens to understand that a LEO will have that information whether you tell him or not. If you are already aware that he has this information there is no reason to get nervous. That is unless you see them in your rear view mirror, weapons out and sneaking up on you.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
I, obviously, did not make myself clear. Yesterday was not my best day and I was distracted, so I apologize to GoGo.

I did mean that it is better for those Legally Armed Citizens to understand that a LEO will have that information whether you tell him or not. If you are already aware that he has this information there is no reason to get nervous. That is unless you see them in your rear view mirror, weapons out and sneaking up on you.

Got it thanks!
 

leitung

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
151
Location
Port Orchard, Washington, USA
LEOs only know that at some time you purchased a particular firearm they do not know if you still have it or if you simply gave it away as a Christmas present. But I agree it is de-facto registration.

It is, in California they have registration of handguns. They check the serial and they know who the gun belongs to. That simple.

I don't like it and we should be fighting for a change in the law.
 
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Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
That doesn't make sense. My understanding has always been that the paperwork filed for background checks on guns purchased are only kept at the shop as a paper copy, where purchased and only handed over if legally demanded by authorities with a court order. How do they get this info from the shop that sells you the firearm? When they call in to do a NICS check, do they tell them all the info via that system? I can see the CPL being visible to LE, but the firearms info shouldn't be available because the shop never tells them specifically what you purchase.

I also thought there was a voluntary registration form you could fill out, in case your firearms were stolen or the like but it wasn't mandatory.


When you fill out the Washington State form for a handgun the yellow copy is mailed into the state once the sale is concluded. If the form is not filled out correctly, it is sent back to the shop for correction. So yes the state does have a record of all handgun sales. Federal copies (4473) remain at the shop where the firearm was purchased.
 

TechnoWeenie

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
2,084
Location
, ,
I have been stating for a few years this is the case we have a "de facto" registration in this state, they know all you firearms you bought through a dealer.

I think their computers even notify them of CPL drivers, watch the cops who have computers and license plate readers as you pass their cars.


Yup, DOL keeps 'records of sales', you know,for tax and business purposes... Has nothing to do with guns..


It just so happens that the forms have gun information on them....

The forms are required to be destroyed, per state law, IIRC, but the law doesn't say they don't make copies.

Maybe we can get some anonymous help with those state databases... :D
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Yup, DOL keeps 'records of sales', you know,for tax and business purposes... Has nothing to do with guns..


It just so happens that the forms have gun information on them....

The forms are required to be destroyed, per state law, IIRC, but the law doesn't say they don't make copies.

Maybe we can get some anonymous help with those state databases... :D


I need to compile a list of some of these issues.
 

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
I was talking to Redboneshadow on friday.......

and he told me that seattle pd was talking about guns on every radio call now. Weather any of the people involved with the call have any guns, cpl, or any past contacts involving weapons. We worry that SPd may be trying to build satistics to use in anti gun politics.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
and he told me that seattle pd was talking about guns on every radio call now. Weather any of the people involved with the call have any guns, cpl, or any past contacts involving weapons. We worry that SPd may be trying to build satistics to use in anti gun politics.

Such government chatter is definitely suspicious. They're supposed to assume everyone might be armed. Also, they could be trying to build justification for a Terry pat-down for any given encounter. This is not to say they're not building statistics--no reason they can't be doing both.

A FOIA/Sunshine Law request for such a policy or memorandum about discussing/asking/reporting weapons in the run up to police arrival at the scene might turn up something. Heck, you could also just ask for a/the memo or plan to compile statistics in this situation.
 
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Stein

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
16
Location
, ,
I just mentioned this in a post regarding what comes back from your CPL application search. It lists every handgun I have bought in WA state, make model, caliber, serial number, barrel length, dealer and transaction date. Long guns were not listed although that was just on the printout I was looking at. I have one purchase on there almost 15 years old.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
This is why none of my pistols or rifles was bought directly from a dealer by me.

We understand you mean you bought all your guns from private sellers (or retrieved guns lost by others in tragic boating accidents :)).

But, you understand your exact wording can also be taken to mean you used straw purchasers?
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
I still hold that the DOL is releasing this information without the authority to do so...

RCW 9.41.129 states...
The department of licensing may keep copies or records of
...
copies or records of applications to purchase pistols provided for in RCW 9.41.090, and copies or records of pistol transfers provided for in RCW 9.41.110. The copies and records shall not be disclosed except as provided in RCW 42.56.240(4).

RCW 42.56.240(4) states...
(4) License applications under RCW 9.41.070; copies of license applications or information on the applications may be released to law enforcement or corrections agencies;

RCW 9.41.070 is specific to CPL application process and information. The RCW's for pistol purchases and transfers are provided under 9.41.090 and 9.41.110. Since 9.41.129 authorizes release only of documents as provided in 42.56.240(4) then the DOL has no authority to release the purchase and transfer documents to anyone... Unless they have authority provided elsewhere in RCW it looks like they are breaking the law to me.
 
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sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I still hold that the DOL is releasing this information without the authority to do so...

RCW 9.41.129 states...


RCW 42.56.240(4) states...


RCW 9.41.070 is specific to CPL application process and information. The RCW's for pistol purchases and transfers are provided under 9.41.090 and 9.41.110. Since 9.41.129 authorizes release only of documents as provided in 42.56.240(4) then the DOL has no authority to release the purchase and transfer documents to anyone... Unless they have authority provided elsewhere in RCW it looks like they are breaking the law to me.

So are LEA's and DOL conspiring to break the law in this state......:shocker:
 
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