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Man shoots at robber, misses.

davidmcbeth

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Messages
16,167
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earth's crust
I think the law needs to change in that state .... why shouldn't you be able to shoot a guy who just stole a $300 item from you?

Cold weather shooting is the hardest .. maybe the shooter was just cold.

The guy pulled a knife on someone, ample evidence to support he would do it again...so its preventive medicine as far as I am concerned.
 

bmg50cal

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Jan 20, 2011
Messages
306
Location
WA - North Whidbey/ Deception Pass
I doubt that a large chunk of OCDO users, myself included, could be considered "hipsters" by any stretch of the imagination. Can we get back on topic, please?

This thread is OT, go patronize someone else. Not just hipsters, but petty malefactors like that gimcrack the iPhone as well. ;)


  • Use eBay instead of Craigslist for items that can be shipped. eBay, requires no personal contact & transactions can be made using Paypal.
  • Meet all potential buyers & sellers during daylight hours. If you are unable to meet during the day, then find a well-lit public location.
  • Never go alone, always bring someone else along with you
  • Always bring your cell phone & arrive early.
  • You can meet in front of police station or even in the lobby without contacting police prior.
  • Do not give out your personal information. If you are able to, try to find out as much about the other person before doing business with them.
  • Be suspicious of those who are overly eager to meet in person. If they spend more time discussing where to meet instead of negotiating a price be aware.
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I think the law needs to change in that state .... why shouldn't you be able to shoot a guy who just stole a $300 item from you?

Cold weather shooting is the hardest .. maybe the shooter was just cold.

The guy pulled a knife on someone, ample evidence to support he would do it again...so its preventive medicine as far as I am concerned.

For stealing $300, no, I would not agree to changing the law to allow a shooting. Theft is not a capital offense.

For armed robbery, however, I would be willing to change the law to allow a back shot. Off-the-cuff thinking anyway. I think police can use lethal force to apprehend a violent felon dangerous to the community. I would have to look it up. I vaguely recall that Tennessee vs Garner might have said "immeninent threat to the community." In any event, whatever the police are empowered to do, I would be inclined toward not witholding that power from the citizens who gave it to the police in the first place.


ETA: I found Tennessee vs Garner.

Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so...

...Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given...


http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/471/1/case.html

You know, on the surface it seems the court couldn't make up its mind. In the first sentence it uses the word immediate. But in the second it changes its tune.

So, at the moment, subject to further consideration, I would say let the robbery victim shoot the fleeing dangerous felon to apprehend him. I'll think on it some more to see what ramifications come to mind.


Side Note: Notice that the ivory tower justices practically erased the old common law doctrine that a burglary after dark was a violent crime. For space reasons I won't go into why it was considered a violent crime at one time, and probably still is in some places. Let me just say the reasoning for considering nightime burglary a violent crime was sound. Yet, the court just erased hundreds of years of common law tradition in one or two sentences. Moreover, the court even cited that the FBI classifies burglary as a property crime. Oh, great! An FBI bureaucrat can change 700 years of common law heritage! And, SCOTUS will use it as an excuse to bolster its argument! Great! Just ****ing geat!
 
Last edited:

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
For stealing $300, no, I would not agree to changing the law to allow a shooting. Theft is not a capital offense.

For armed robbery, however, I would be willing to change the law to allow a back shot. Off-the-cuff thinking anyway. I think police can use lethal force to apprehend a violent felon dangerous to the community. I would have to look it up. I vaguely recall that Tennessee vs Garner might have said "immeninent threat to the community." In any event, whatever the police are empowered to do, I would be inclined toward not witholding that power from the citizens who gave it to the police in the first place.


ETA: I found Tennessee vs Garner.

Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so...

...Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given...


http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/471/1/case.html

You know, on the surface it seems the court couldn't make up its mind. In the first sentence it uses the word immediate. But in the second it changes its tune.

So, at the moment, subject to further consideration, I would say let the robbery victim shoot the fleeing dangerous felon to apprehend him. I'll think on it some more to see what ramifications come to mind.


Side Note: Notice that the ivory tower justices practically erased the old common law doctrine that a burglary after dark was a violent crime. For space reasons I won't go into why it was considered a violent crime at one time, and probably still is in some places. Let me just say the reasoning for considering nightime burglary a violent crime was sound. Yet, the court just erased hundreds of years of common law tradition in one or two sentences. Moreover, the court even cited that the FBI classifies burglary as a property crime. Oh, great! An FBI bureaucrat can change 700 years of common law heritage! And, SCOTUS will use it as an excuse to bolster its argument! Great! Just ****ing geat!
Uh, no, they did not, at least not in Missouri. RSMo 563.041.
 

davidmcbeth

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
For stealing $300, no, I would not agree to changing the law to allow a shooting. Theft is not a capital offense.
........ I would say let the robbery victim shoot the fleeing dangerous felon to apprehend him. I'll think on it some more to see what ramifications come to mind.

Looks like you changed your mind .... I know most people would not agree with shooting a fleeing criminal ... but that SOB was just threatening to kill you 2 seconds ago ... that criminal needs an attitude adjustment and a 357 round will make that adjustment very quickly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwlm9cxbY_M

Hank knows ...
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Uh, no, they did not, at least not in Missouri. RSMo 563.041.

That's why I said "practically" by which I meant almost. Of course, the context is the dicta* for that opinion, not a new legal standard. But, it was applied to help arrive at their new standard.



*Dicta is the discussion part of the opinion. The holding is the legally binding part of the opinion.
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Looks like you changed your mind .... I know most people would not agree with shooting a fleeing criminal ... but that SOB was just threatening to kill you 2 seconds ago ... that criminal needs an attitude adjustment and a 357 round will make that adjustment very quickly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwlm9cxbY_M

Hank knows ...

Come on McBeth. You first set up the argument by failing to make the distinction, then "win" the argument by making the distinction.

Instead of saying "fleeing criminal" and then saying "made lethal threats criminal" just make the distinction in the first place.

There is no "but". The only reason there is a "but" in there is because you built the first part the way you did.

Just make the appropriate distinction in the first place and the whole "but" evaporates.
 
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