9mm round detonated after being dropped on the floor at a qualification range.

24OCT2013: A 9mm round detonated after being dropped on the floor at a qualification range.

Background:

A 10th Mountain Unit was conducting a M9 qualification when the incident occurred. The soldiers were issued their allotted number of rounds in the foam tray, then carried them onto the firing line at the all weather qualification range (indoor range). One of the Soldiers dropped his tray while inside the air lock room and one of the rounds detonated, sending brass shrapnel and the projectile into the walls of the room. No Soldiers were injured.

Analysis:

The 9mm round had a crescent shaped scar across the primer (as seen in the picture). The scar appears to be similar to those made on the casing from the crimping process done at the factory. It is suspected that the round was not correctly positioned in the shell holder when the process was completed. Creating condition where a light strike on the primer was enough to detonate the round. After examining the remaining ammunition the rounds showed similiar markings on the primer were separated out and turned back in for disposal.



This was posted up at drill this past month, took a photo which I'll try to post. I figured I'd send the heads up to those of you that shoot and buy 9mm ammo. Not sure what company made this ammo as it doesn't say, but figured I'd put it out there.

There is a firearms instruction school called Front Sight not far from here. They probably have a thousand students a day out there.

Part of their training is clearing malfunctions so quite a few loaded rounds get cleared from guns.

They've had ONE go off when it hit the ground, last I heard. Pretty good odds.

But it seems like this one was badly crimped primers? Can you link the story so we can see the picture?

I've always wondered; just how effective is a crimped primer at doing whatever it is supposed to be doing? Do battlefield conditions really cause a chance of a primer to fall out?

MAC702 said:

There is a firearms instruction school called Front Sight not far from here. They probably have a thousand students a day out there.

Part of their training is clearing malfunctions so quite a few loaded rounds get cleared from guns.

They've had ONE go off when it hit the ground, last I heard. Pretty good odds.

But it seems like this one was badly seated primers? Can you link the story so we can see the picture?

Click to expand...

Yea I'm attempting to upload the photo fo the poster. You can see clear as day there is a dent (crescent) in the primer. It look almost like a soft hit.

Tried, but this forum is saying the file is too large. It was taken with my cell phone.

Primus said:

Tried, but this forum is saying the file is too large. It was taken with my cell phone.

Click to expand...

I didn't realize you were the source! I'm no expert on what this forum can do or the best way to get around it, but I do know that www.irfanview.com is a great photo manipulation software that is free and fairly easy to use for sizing files, even for a rock like me, if that's what you need.

MAC702 said:

I didn't realize you were the source! I'm no expert on what this forum can do or the best way to get around it, but I do know that www.irfanview.com is a great photo manipulation software that is free and fairly easy to use for sizing files, even for a rock like me, if that's what you need.

Click to expand...

Thank you, I'll check it out.

You can just post the photo through imgur.com and paste the link here...

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Nightmare said:

I doubt it, "the projectile into the walls", as momentum is conserved. The projectile weighs about 8 grams and the exploded case was not directed for best effect.

Click to expand...

Your right, I guess the 10th MTN made it up. What do they know about guns and projectiles.

http://imgur.com/ekmeCoX

Baked on Grease said:

You can just post the photo through imgur.com and paste the link here...

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Thank you, I was successful.

(chuckle)

Well, I wouldn't expect the Army to know the difference between ignition and detonation. I'll bet some Army EOD and combat engineers did a few face-palms over that one.

defective primer - assembly issue, poor QC.

Primus said:

Your right, I guess the 10th MTN made it up. What do they know about guns and projectiles.

http://imgur.com/ekmeCoX

Click to expand...

I still don't believe for a second that the bullet embedded itself in the wall. Unless the energy release is directed carefully against the bullet along a single axis and the casing is held in place and intact, the bullet pretty much is going nowhere. The bullet is absolutely huge compared to the casing. Additionally, the expanding gasses will dissipate rapidly, not being trapped in a barrel and a chamber. It is those expanding gasses in the chamber and the barrel of the gun that give the bullet its direction and energy. Absent a chamber and a barrel, the bullet is going essentially nowhere.

Where is the picture of the bullet embedded in the wall?


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<o>

Like most posters, I find Primus to have credibility at times and not at others. However, he generally posts rationally in the midst of others not addressing his substance. Therefore, I assign him more credibility than I do many of his critics.

In the case of this thread, he is taking the incredible word of others. Yes, they should know about how ammo behaves. However, those of us who understand the physics of cartridges being set off know that the claims in the article do not make sense.

Let's deal with the substance of these claims, and point out rationally how they don't make sense, rather than mocking the person who is passing them along. You have a far better shot at convincing him an others that these claims don't make sense if you deal with the claims rather than with the poster.


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<o>

eye95 said:

I still don't believe for a second that the bullet embedded itself in the wall. Unless the energy release is directed carefully against the bullet along a single axis and the casing is held in place and intact, the bullet pretty much is going nowhere. The bullet is absolutely huge compared to the casing. Additionally, the expanding gasses will dissipate rapidly, not being trapped in a barrel and a chamber. It is those expanding gasses in the chamber and the barrel of the gun that give the bullet its direction and energy. Absent a chamber and a barrel, the bullet is going essentially nowhere.

Where is the picture of the bullet embedded in the wall?


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<o>

Click to expand...

I actually agree with the physics that the bullet shouldn't be able to be projected into the wall. Again, shouldn't. Do I believe that it's completely inhumanly impossible? No. I'd like to see the photo also, but obviously just passing what I know as a heads up to anyone who uses 9mm. Could the round have landed right next to a wall and happened to get lodged in it? I have no idea.

My response about 10th Mountain knowing about firearms was because the other posted threw out a comment as if the Army had no idea what they were talking about.

Finally, I've posted the Mythbusters video that shows that bullets can be projected from a heat source. It shows that yes the casing makes the most damage, but the bullets themselves can be shot around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAK2dDQ-S4Q

eye95 said:

I still don't believe for a second that the bullet embedded itself in the wall. Unless the energy release is directed carefully against the bullet along a single axis and the casing is held in place and intact, the bullet pretty much is going nowhere. The bullet is absolutely huge compared to the casing. Additionally, the expanding gasses will dissipate rapidly, not being trapped in a barrel and a chamber. It is those expanding gasses in the chamber and the barrel of the gun that give the bullet its direction and energy. Absent a chamber and a barrel, the bullet is going essentially nowhere.

Where is the picture of the bullet embedded in the wall?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

this is what happens when unsupported cartridges go bang.

Daylen said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

this is what happens when unsupported cartridges go bang.

Click to expand...

Good video. Actually pretty cool to see. Crazy that 500 went right through the drywall.

The bullet shown was not imbedded into any walls. It was a clean non-impact bullet.

It looks like the brass it worse for wear though. It would appear that there was a factory crimp on the bullet and brass to keep the bullet from becoming unseated while held in the magazine of a semi-auto pistol.

I am not faulting any one who posts here for repeating what was on the notice though.

Nothing to add to the conversation except the inevitable:

"If you like your rounds, you can keep your rounds. Nobody is going to take away your rounds from you."
Month later:
"Ok, we need your rounds. They don't meet specifications. You can purchase approved rounds at your local "exchanges" (i.e., LEO agency) for double the price and half the quantity. Sorry you're stupid to believe me."