So I moved my Sailing yacht to Hampton River (This is OC Related)

Ric in Richmond said:

You are setting yourself up for a world of hurt in MD if you think COLREGS is going to save you or that the DNR or coasties won't search every inch of your boat RAS or not.

COLREGS line of demarcation runs from Cape Charles Light to Cape Henry....the entire bay has NOTHING to do with COLREGS....

Click to expand...

Yes and no. COLREGS include U.S. Inland rules, and they apply on "navigable waters of the United States".

The OP is dreaming if he thinks he can get by with carrying firearms on a boat in Maryland waters. In both NY cases it seems pretty obvious to me that the USCG called the local yokels to arrest the captains.

WRT distress signals, a firearm is a permissible tool for sending distress signals, but that doesn't mean one is required. There are many other methods of signalling distress.

mariner said:

Yes and no. COLREGS include U.S. Inland rules, and they apply on "navigable waters of the United States".

The OP is dreaming if he thinks he can get by with carrying firearms on a boat in Maryland waters. In both NY cases it seems pretty obvious to me that the USCG called the local yokels to arrest the captains.

WRT distress signals, a firearm is a permissible tool for sending distress signals, but that doesn't mean one is required. There are many other methods of signalling distress.

Click to expand...

No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms

Southern Bay Race Week

Freeflight, we bring the Tripp 26 down to Hampton every first weekend of June, for Southern Bay Race Week. I open carry everywhere in Hampton, until the rum sponsored parties begin. I have carried on the east of the river when we stayed at Joy's. Typically we are at the public pier or Hampton Yacht Club. Never had any problems, but do get a few curious looks open carrying in my sailing togs, crawling all over the boat.

We'll have to hook up next June! Musasi Japanese Restaurant on Queens Way is great for sushi! Yes, OC'd there.

mariner said:

Yes and no. COLREGS include U.S. Inland rules, and they apply on "navigable waters of the United States".

The OP is dreaming if he thinks he can get by with carrying firearms on a boat in Maryland waters. In both NY cases it seems pretty obvious to me that the USCG called the local yokels to arrest the captains.

WRT distress signals, a firearm is a permissible tool for sending distress signals, but that doesn't mean one is required. There are many other methods of signalling distress.

Click to expand...

mariner, I agree that the CG called the local yokals.. VERY DISTURBING as I have been told by several Coasties that this is against their own policy. I will do my best to get a CITE for this.

I can also NOT find out what happened to the Captain that was obviously ratted out by tattletale coasties. knowing the State and the shenanigans they pull (new york) they swept it under the rug. Let the Capt go and dropped all charges.

I will go as far as to say having a GUN aboard is REQUIRED.

Here's the TEXT from which I base my decision.

When a vessel is in distress and requires assistance she shall use or exhibit the signals described in Annex IV to these Regulations

Notice the word SHALL

Then it goes on to say in Annex IV for International:

1. The following signals, used or exhibited either together or separately, indicate distress and need of assistance:

a gun or other explosive signal fired at intervals of about a minute;
a continuous sounding with any fog-signaling apparatus;
rockets or shells, throwing red stars fired one at a time at short intervals;
a signal made by radiotelegraphy or by any other signaling method consisting of the group
. . .- - -. . . (SOS) in the Morse Code;
a signal sent by radiotelephony consisting of the spoken word "Mayday";
the International Code Signal of distress indicated by N.C.;
a signal consisting of a square flag having above or below it a ball or anything resembling a ball;
flames on the vessel (as from a burning tar barrel, oil barrel, etc.);
a rocket parachute flare or a hand flare showing a red light;
a smoke signal giving off orange-colored smoke;
slowly and repeatedly raising and lowering arms outstretched to each side;
the radiotelegraph alarm signal;
the radiotelephone alarm signal;
signals transmitted by emergency position-indicating radio beacons;
approved signals transmitted by radiocommunication systems, including survival craft radar transponders.


Then it goes on to say in the Inland rules under the Authority of: 33 U.S.C. 2071; 49 CFR 1.46.

The following signals, used or exhibited either together or separately, indicate distress and need of assistance:

(a) A gun or other explosive signal fired at intervals of about a minute.

(b) A continuous sounding with any fog-signaling apparatus;
EtcEtcEtc


No my friend... having a Gun aboard is REQUIRED and not subject to the New Yorks, NJ's, MARYland etc etc. itty bitty capricious whims.

AtackDuck said:

Freeflight, we bring the Tripp 26 down to Hampton every first weekend of June, for Southern Bay Race Week. I open carry everywhere in Hampton, until the rum sponsored parties begin. I have carried on the east of the river when we stayed at Joy's. Typically we are at the public pier or Hampton Yacht Club. Never had any problems, but do get a few curious looks open carrying in my sailing togs, crawling all over the boat.

We'll have to hook up next June! Musasi Japanese Restaurant on Queens Way is great for sushi! Yes, OC'd there.

Click to expand...

Looking forward to it. We are at Joys now and know everyone and I do the same OC everywhere except if I get into the Rum!

What's your Yachts name... mine is Beau Soleil.

I'm almost certain We have spoken. I think I know your yacht.

Freeflight said:

mariner, I agree that the CG called the local yokals.. VERY DISTURBING as I have been told by several Coasties that this is against their own policy. I will do my best to get a CITE for this.

I can also NOT find out what happened to the Captain that was obviously ratted out by tattletale coasties. knowing the State and the shenanigans they pull (new york) they swept it under the rug. Let the Capt go and dropped all charges.

I will go as far as to say having a GUN aboard is REQUIRED.

Here's the TEXT from which I base my decision.

When a vessel is in distress and requires assistance she shall use or exhibit the signals described in Annex IV to these Regulations

Notice the word SHALL

Then it goes on to say in Annex IV for International:

1. The following signals, used or exhibited either together or separately, indicate distress and need of assistance:

a gun or other explosive signal fired at intervals of about a minute;
a continuous sounding with any fog-signaling apparatus;
rockets or shells, throwing red stars fired one at a time at short intervals;
a signal made by radiotelegraphy or by any other signaling method consisting of the group
. . .- - -. . . (SOS) in the Morse Code;
a signal sent by radiotelephony consisting of the spoken word "Mayday";
the International Code Signal of distress indicated by N.C.;
a signal consisting of a square flag having above or below it a ball or anything resembling a ball;
flames on the vessel (as from a burning tar barrel, oil barrel, etc.);
a rocket parachute flare or a hand flare showing a red light;
a smoke signal giving off orange-colored smoke;
slowly and repeatedly raising and lowering arms outstretched to each side;
the radiotelegraph alarm signal;
the radiotelephone alarm signal;
signals transmitted by emergency position-indicating radio beacons;
approved signals transmitted by radiocommunication systems, including survival craft radar transponders.


Then it goes on to say in the Inland rules under the Authority of: 33 U.S.C. 2071; 49 CFR 1.46.

The following signals, used or exhibited either together or separately, indicate distress and need of assistance:

(a) A gun or other explosive signal fired at intervals of about a minute.

(b) A continuous sounding with any fog-signaling apparatus;
EtcEtcEtc


No my friend... having a Gun aboard is REQUIRED and not subject to the New Yorks, NJ's, MARYland etc etc. itty bitty capricious whims.

Click to expand...

I think the key here is that the vessel operator has a choice of which devices to use (together or separately), which would imply that not all are required to be aboard at any one time. I can envision a (MD, NY, NJ, etc) judge asking you "If you didn't have a gun, could you still signal that you were in distress?" JMHO.

skidmark said:

Could you clarify when your ship is considered under international maritime rules as opposed to US or state rules? Is it possible to be operating under both at the same time?

Click to expand...

IIRC, international waters start 20mi (?) out.
State waters are wholly surrounded by the state & not useful for commerce.
Giving WI examples (since that's what I'm familiar with):
F'rinstance, Lake Winnebago is (somehow) used for commerce, so the CG can/does patrol there.

But on Lake Michigan, or the rivers dumping into it, once the bay or river narrows to a mile or less it becomes state waters inland/upstream from there. There's an ongoing discussion about the port of Milwaukee, since we have a breakwall that definitely makes for a less than 1-mile opening, but it's not natural. In reality, when there are events in the harbor (fireworks) we have all flavors of LEO helping out: city, county, state & federal.

Also, do you need to be "registered" (as my automobile is) in a state and thus can you be inspected (as opposed to "searched") for compliance with registration requirements?

Click to expand...

A larger boat can be documented, which is more of a national registry. Those are the ones you see w/ a name & home port painted on the stern.
Smaller boats are registered w/ the state. They have a state abbreviation & numbers on the bow.

And it really has no bearing on who can stop you & check for safety equipment.
Sort of like your car being registered with the state, but a state patrol officer, or a county sheriff, or a city police officer can all stop you if they say your taillight is out.
In general, they'll have you show them stuff (flares, life jackets, registration papers) instead of actually boarding.

I've been pulled over by the Coast Guard twice, once at a distance (asking me to show my light, or get off the water, as it was getting dark) &
once up close (trying to tell me I wasn't allowed to be out after dark, since I didn't have electric lights. I'm a kayaker. I don't have to have colored lights, just one white one to show to avoid collision). I don't blame them for not knowing paddle laws, since they're usually dealing with motor boats. But it was kinda funny that they managed to miss my USCG Auxiliary hat.

Freeflight said:

Looking forward to it. We are at Joys now and know everyone and I do the same OC everywhere except if I get into the Rum!

What's your Yachts name... mine is Beau Soleil.

I'm almost certain We have spoken. I think I know your yacht.

Click to expand...

GOIN' Just plain white. Got it in '09. Been racing SBRW since about 2000 and conceal carried there, until about 3 years ago. Gun gets sweaty, so I like OC much better.

Hate to disappoint, and just found this thread. If you are caught with a gun underway, you playing with fire. It is NOT required on a vessel. If they find your handgun, and you use the it's for signalling defense, you will be fighting a losing battle. You may get very, unheard of lucky and somehow find a sympathetic judge, but I don't recommend it. I am a licensed charter captain, 50 ton Masters inland. I have to fight these kinds of battles. The registration of a boat can be done either way. You can CHOOSE to register with the state, or have it documented with the Federal. We've done it both ways. Changing the name for instance on a documented boat is costly, but state registration like a car, is nothing. You can change the name every day if you want. Goes my registration number...
I know, this is Open Carry, but I don't want someone to get into trouble with a misinterpretation of regualtions.
I'm not a lawyer, and don't remember every reg, but the biggies I have to deal with, I keep up on...

Red Dawg said:

Hate to disappoint, and just found this thread. If you are caught with a gun underway, you playing with fire. It is NOT required on a vessel. If they find your handgun, and you use the it's for signalling defense, you will be fighting a losing battle. You may get very, unheard of lucky and somehow find a sympathetic judge, but I don't recommend it. I am a licensed charter captain, 50 ton Masters inland. I have to fight these kinds of battles. The registration of a boat can be done either way. You can CHOOSE to register with the state, or have it documented with the Federal. We've done it both ways. Changing the name for instance on a documented boat is costly, but state registration like a car, is nothing. You can change the name every day if you want. Goes my registration number...
I know, this is Open Carry, but I don't want someone to get into trouble with a misinterpretation of regualtions.
I'm not a lawyer, and don't remember every reg, but the biggies I have to deal with, I keep up on...

Click to expand...

I don't know red dawg.. a prudent mariner has at his disposal everything he possibly can. and btw. I love playing with fire.

I've already warned everyone (readers) to not do this, I am prepared and have made up my mind. Not trying to sway anyone else to my way of thinking. Just having a interesting conversation.

But its hard to get around the picture of a 1911 Gun and firing it once a minute to signal distress.

what do the Regs say for a Merchant Vessel captain concerning firearms? Could be you have access to rules I cant find... Cite man Cite!

Freeflight:
Well, wanted to see what kind of dialogue my answers would invoke. While Virginia waters are indeed that, it's an iffy thing dealing with USCG.
The actual letter of the law does include a gun for signalling. And while I wanted to see what kind of cans I could open, it is legal to have a gun that fires real projectiles on a boat. We hunt from boats all over the US. From the little duck boats, to 40 something foot charters with Sea Duck parties, we use guns for hunting underway. BUT, the handgun laws are different. VA you might be golden, but stray too close to Smith Island, and MD DNR may give you death by boondah until things are figured out. Hope your wallet is fat....Good luck, in a true sense...But this one I just can't fight with you on..

I live right by that marina just behind the golf course. I doubt anyone around here will ever give you a hard time for OC. The Hampton U kids might get their panties in a bunch though, but honestly, who cares?