Question regarding the "1000 foot rule" around schools....

I find nothing in the Colorado laws that says there is a ban on OC 1000' around schools. What I read is there is a ban on OC while on the schools physical property, but that CC permit holders may keep their gun in the car etc, etc. I tried to research the federal statutes. The only thing I found was the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990, which was ruled unconstitutional in 1995. But was re-written and has since been unchallenged. But even that act makes no mention of this 1000' zone. Is that 1000' zone just an urban legend? I can't find it in law. The reason I ask is because I'm 250' from a high school.

Obviously they can't ban me from carrying on my property. And they can't ban me from the house or my car. What about walking down the sidewalk in my neighborhood? Just a legal curiosity on my part.

Presumable you have seen the "Colorado Gun Rights" tri-fold brochure which has some statements on this but not quite sure how thorough it is. I do not have before me the link to it but maybe can find it if need be.

From the brochure....

"C.R.S. 18-12-105.5 permits a valid CHP holder to have a handgun in his vehicle on school grounds as long as the gun remains in the vehicle (it must be in a compartment in the vehicle and the vehicle must be locked if it is unoccupied). Unlawful possession on school gronds is a class 6 felony.

A valid CHP also provides an exemption from the federal 1000' gun-free zone law. A CHP holder may carry concealed or openly within the 1000' zone."

Not sure if that completely answers for you.
You might look up that C.R.S. number to read the actual legal wording.

18-12-105.5. Unlawfully carrying a weapon - unlawful possession of weapons - school, college, or university grounds

(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution that require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.

[ ... ]

Off Lexis Nexis - Current"

COLORADO REVISED STATUTES


*** THIS DOCUMENT REFLECTS CHANGES CURRENT THROUGH ALL LAWS PASSED AT THE FIRST REGULAR SESSION OF THE 68TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF COLORADO ***


TITLE 18. CRIMINAL CODE
ARTICLE 12. OFFENSES RELATING TO FIREARMS AND WEAPONS
PART 1. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS - GENERAL


C.R.S. 18-12-105.5 (2011)

(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution that require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.

(2) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2000, p. 709, § 45, effective July 1, 2000.)

(3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:

(a) The weapon is unloaded and remains inside a motor vehicle while upon the real estate of any public or private college, university, or seminary; or

(b) The person is in that person's own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under that person's control at the time of the act of carrying; or

(c) The person is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance and is carrying a weapon for lawful protection of that person's or another's person or property while traveling; or

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(e) The person is a peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or

(f) and (g) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2003, p. 1626, § 51, effective August 6, 2003.)

(h) The person has possession of the weapon for use in an educational program approved by a school which program includes, but shall not be limited to, any course designed for the repair or maintenance of weapons.

HISTORY: Source:. L. 93: Entire section added, p. 965, § 2, effective July 1.L. 94: (1) and (2) amended, p. 1721, § 19, effective July 1.L. 2000: Entire section amended, p. 709, § 45, effective July 1.L. 2003: (3)(d) amended and (3)(d.5) added, p. 649, § 4, effective May 17; (3)(e), (3)(f), and (3)(g) amended, p. 1626, § 51, effective August 6.


ANNOTATION

Unless the prosecution can also establish that the person used or intended to use the knife as a weapon, a person cannot be prosecuted under subsection (1) for carrying a knife with a blade less than three and one-half inches in length on school grounds. Even though subsection (1) references the deadly weapons statute, that statute does not specifically define "knife". The term "knife" is, however, specifically limited to a weapon with a blade longer than three and one-half inches in length by § 18-12-101 (1), as applicable to this article. Thus, reading and harmonizing these provisions together, the plain language of both provisions establishes that, for purposes of this section, where the deadly weapon is a knife, it must qualify as a knife under § 18-12-101 (1)(f). People ex rel. J.W.T., 93 P.3d 580 (Colo. App. 2004).

There is a TON of reading to do to figure everything out....but 18 USC § 922 makes it illegal to carry in a school zone....18 USC § 921 had the definitions which include "school zone"....

(a) As used in this chapter—
(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or
private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of
a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term “school” means a school which provides
elementary or secondary education, as determined
under State law.

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/921

...and you're right about there not being anything in CO law about the 1000' zone...CO just prohibits carry only on school property itself.

PikesPeakMtnMan said:

...and you're right about there not being anything in CO law about the 1000' zone...CO just prohibits carry only on school property itself.
[/URL]

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Yup, but i'd hate to have a federal charge sitting on me
I've been told that the 'rule' is not 'usually' applied on its own.. let the speculation begin

--Rob

From all the non-lawyerly advice I've heard regarding this....no one gets charged for JUST a 1000' violation, too much hassle bringing federal charges for it, without any other charge providing the "meat-and-potatoes" of the case.

Thanks for bringing up this topic as I have always been wondering about it and doing tons of research. My family and I like to spend weekends just visiting random small towns like Pagosa Springs, Georgetown, or Manitou and looking around. It really makes no sense to me, I could be strolling down the sidewalk OC'ing in a new town, and unknown to me there is a school right around the corner. I do my best to check as we drive through, and I Google Map the area too. I don't catch every single school but if there is one nearby I know of, I will CC. I've heard that a permit exempts you from the 1,000 foot rule as long as you're not on the real property of a school. Can anyone cite this as I have not found it yet.

Blessings,

Keens

Keens said:

I've heard that a permit exempts you from the 1,000 foot rule as long as you're not on the real property of a school. Can anyone cite this as I have not found it yet.

Blessings,

Keens

Click to expand...

I posted the entire statute above, it does say that if you hold a valid CHP, it is NOT an offense. (to be concealed)

Keens said:

Thanks for bringing up this topic as I have always been wondering about it and doing tons of research. My family and I like to spend weekends just visiting random small towns like Pagosa Springs, Georgetown, or Manitou and looking around. It really makes no sense to me, I could be strolling down the sidewalk OC'ing in a new town, and unknown to me there is a school right around the corner. I do my best to check as we drive through, and I Google Map the area too. I don't catch every single school but if there is one nearby I know of, I will CC. I've heard that a permit exempts you from the 1,000 foot rule as long as you're not on the real property of a school. Can anyone cite this as I have not found it yet.

Blessings,

Keens

Click to expand...

Keep in mind, that the federal law says you must know that a school is in the vicinity in order to be in violation...seems to me that google mapping an area shows that you must've been aware where the schools are. Myself, I would just visit and would only worry if I turned a corner and lo-and-behold there was a school in front of me, in which case I would immediately retrace my steps and find another route.

Also, it's a little fuzzy in the federal law, but a licensee is exempt from the 1000' violation...it doesn't say anything about carrying concealed or openly. This, of course, doesn't mean that you can actually step onto a school's property but you could certainly walk on the sidewalk in front of it assuming you have a concealed permit, regardless of whether or not you're actually concealing.

PikesPeakMtnMan said:

Also, it's a little fuzzy in the federal law, but a licensee is exempt from the 1000' violation...it doesn't say anything about carrying concealed or openly. This, of course, doesn't mean that you can actually step onto a school's property but you could certainly walk on the sidewalk in front of it assuming you have a concealed permit, regardless of whether or not you're actually concealing.

Click to expand...

NOT an offense if:

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article;


d.5 means.. ANY carry.. is ok if you hold a CHP

Problem is, I literally live 250' from a high school. It's just across the street from my back yard. So does this mean I can't OC while walking around the neighborhood? Or is it that it won't be a problem as long as I don't violate some other law?

I should have my CHP within a month, so it's kind of moot, but I'm curious anyway.

To me, it seems like the law is limited to the real property of the school itself.

mobiushky said:

Problem is, I literally live 250' from a high school. It's just across the street from my back yard. So does this mean I can't OC while walking around the neighborhood? Or is it that it won't be a problem as long as I don't violate some other law?

I should have my CHP within a month, so it's kind of moot, but I'm curious anyway.

To me, it seems like the law is limited to the real property of the school itself.

Click to expand...

State law is property, Federal is 1000'. I'd talk to an atty, but I don't think that the Feds would beat you up on the 1000' law unless you are a drug dealer.. (it's why the law exists anyway.. )

--Rob

mobiushky said:

Problem is, I literally live 250' from a high school. It's just across the street from my back yard. So does this mean I can't OC while walking around the neighborhood? Or is it that it won't be a problem as long as I don't violate some other law?

I should have my CHP within a month, so it's kind of moot, but I'm curious anyway.

To me, it seems like the law is limited to the real property of the school itself.

Click to expand...

Under FEDERAL law, you cannot carry within 1000' feet of a school unless you have some sort of permit. Under COLORADO law, you're only illegal if you step foot onto the actual property of the school. The likelihood of drawing a federal charge for doing nothing more than OCing through your neighborhood is slim to none, but the possibility is there.

Bellum_Intus said:

I posted the entire statute above, it does say that if you hold a valid CHP, it is NOT an offense. (to be concealed)

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Unless I missed it, carrying concealed is not a requirement. The only requirement is that a person posses a permit to conceal.

Beau said:

Unless I missed it, carrying concealed is not a requirement. The only requirement is that a person posses a permit to conceal.

Click to expand...

I'll repeat my post..

NOT an offense if:

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article;


d.5 means.. ANY carry.. is ok if you hold a CHP

--Rob

Bellum_Intus said:

I'll repeat my post..

NOT an offense if:

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article;


d.5 means.. ANY carry.. is ok if you hold a CHP

--Rob

Click to expand...

Well luckily my CHP paperwork is at the Sheriff's office and I should get it in 4-6 weeks. He actually told me that it's only been taking 2-3 weeks lately.

Bellum_Intus said:

I'll repeat my post..

NOT an offense if:

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article;


d.5 means.. ANY carry.. is ok if you hold a CHP

--Rob

Click to expand...

That the way I understood the statute. But you posted this,

Bellum_Intus said:

I posted the entire statute above, it does say that if you hold a valid CHP, it is NOT an offense. (to be concealed)

Click to expand...

Which led me to believe you were saying that you had to be concealed.

Bellum_Intus said:

State law is property, Federal is 1000'. I'd talk to an atty, but I don't think that the Feds would beat you up on the 1000' law unless you are a drug dealer.. (it's why the law exists anyway.. )

--Rob

Click to expand...

This makes the most sense to me. It's like the law that was passed in Idaho 20-30 years ago. They passed a law that fined people for selling drugs without this State approved Tax seal. Of course no drug dealer ever applied for the seal, so when they got arrested they got hit with the selling drugs charge AND the fine for not having the seal. It was just a way to add insult to injury.

Howdy Folks!
At the risk of being redundant; because I know some have heard this before, but I think bears repeating:

"Most of the stuff we worry about never happens."

When it comes to the 1,000 foot rule, so long as you are in your car and passing through or going about your business without knowing you're within that 1000 feet of a school, on your own property, etc; don't fret about it so much. Why give yourself ulcers over something that never seems to come up except in the presence of a more overt violation of law.

In other words, there really ain't much 'stand alone' enforcement of the 1000 foot rule. Is it possible some cop that missed his doughnut one morning might make trouble? Yeah, it is possible, but highly unlikely. Your odds of being hit by lightening are far better.

Before I got my CHP, I didn't concern myself with worrying about it. And of course, it never became an issue. Since I got my CHP, it still has never come up.

Considering I hunt (metal detector) quite a bit at night with a headlamp on, and tend to attract police officers curious to learn what I'm doing out at some school at midnight, they'll often make contact. Given some of the neighborhoods I hunt at all hours (Montbello, 5 Points, etc), it would be nice to be armed because there are actual thugs lurking in the darkness. When possible, I'll have my pardner hunting with me. But often I am alone out there and having my handgun on my person would be reasonable. But never have I been approached by an LEO who checked to see if I was carrying or not. I wasn't, mind you, but never have any of them checked.

BTW, I usually do carry pepper spray just for those nefarious night lurkers.

So far I haven't been bothered by thugs or police. Usually the cops are curious about metal detecting, what's the best thing I ever found, why do it at midnight or 2am, am I having any luck, and all the usual questions we hear from folks that never did metal detecting. But not once, in all the contacts I've had with LEOs, have I ever been checked for handguns. Neither has my pardner, who also hunts on his own quite often.

I only ever had one troublesome officer who wanted to be a Richard one night, around 1:00am, who asked what struck me as a series of stupid questions:
"Why you out here at this time of night?" He asked.
"So I can have the place to myself and not be bothered by people asking questions!" I responded.
"Why not do your thing before sundown?" He enquired.
"Because there are often kids hanging around. They can be a nuisance that I'm avoiding by hunting at night!" I retorted.
"And what if you should happen to stumble across a pipe bomb out here? Ever think about that?"
"Pipe bomb????" I rejoined, with full incredulity! "Really? Pipe bombs? What was your last assignment sir? School security in Kabul?"
"Hey it happens all the time that pipe bombs are found at schools".
"On playgrounds? Seriously? And who would you rather have discover that phantasimal pipe bomb? A responsible adult who has some idea what's up or some little kid who picks the thing up out of curiosity and blows his little backside all over the school?"
"Well, that doesn't mean it would be safe for you either!" He countered.
"I've been detecting at schools like this, several days a week, every single week, year round, even with snow on the ground, for 4 years. Never once have I found a pipe bomb!"

Anyhow, I ended up contacting his supervisor and have never seen him since.

Point is, he worried about pipe bombs. Something that never happened.
Much like the 1,000 foot rule, the stuff we worry about tends to never happen.
I hope this parable helps to illustrate my point.

Just saying.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin