New,Unsafe Protocall at Gibralter Trade in Mount Clemens(gun show?)!

TheQ · Feb 18, 2013

I started the thread simply to gather information on the topic. I try my best (like a good Roberts Rule of order chair) to remain neutral in discussion.

My post was intended to not show a disposition on my part one way or the other.

scot623 · Feb 18, 2013

Patron "Hi Mr Gibraltar, I recently paid to enter a gun show hosted at your facility. I paid to enter even though they wouldn't allow me to carry a loaded gun. I want you to change your policy so I can carry a loaded gun next time. Thanks."

Response "Hello patron, Why should we change the policy to allow loaded carry? You obviously didn't care enough last time because you still paid to enter. Why should I trust you won't just pay to enter again when we don't change the policy? Oh by the way, thanks for paying the entrance fee, I just bought a new boat because all you gun guys sell out your convictions just to buy overpriced ammo. Suckers."

Raggs · Feb 18, 2013

Gentlemen, All I said was that it had been discussed and then Scott623 took issue with that. I am not attacking anyone. I was simply pointing out that just because a group has a table at the fudapalooza did not mean they were for all policies anymore than MOC if they decided to have a table there would be. I am not kicking EZ theQ or anyone else.

Ezerharden · Feb 18, 2013

Raggs said:
Gentlemen, All I said was that it had been discussed and then Scott623 took issue with that. I am not attacking anyone. I was simply pointing out that just because a group has a table at the fudapalooza did not mean they were for all policies anymore than MOC if they decided to have a table there would be. I am not kicking EZ theQ or anyone else.

Didn't say you were, I just wanted to be sure that everyone knew the post that was cited was largely because of an idea I had, not MOC. God knows they get lit up enough already for stuff, so I didn't want to have another baseless accusation for some to seize upon.

Shadow Bear · Feb 18, 2013

scot623 said:
Patron "Hi Mr Gibraltar, I recently paid to enter a gun show hosted at your facility. I paid to enter even though they wouldn't allow me to carry a loaded gun. I want you to change your policy so I can carry a loaded gun next time. Thanks."

Response "Hello patron, Why should we change the policy to allow loaded carry? You obviously didn't care enough last time because you still paid to enter. Why should I trust you won't just pay to enter again when we don't change the policy? Oh by the way, thanks for paying the entrance fee, I just bought a new boat because all you gun guys sell out your convictions just to buy overpriced ammo. Suckers."

You don't send missionaries to the believers; you send them to the uninformed...

I see no problem with taking the opportunity to make a few 'converts', provided it doesn't line the pockets of those who would oppress us.

As far as actually giving the promoters any of my hard earned money, NEVER, EVER, EVER. No money for those who would trample our rights- not one penny. Vote with your wallets and your feet.

Ezerharden · Feb 18, 2013

Shadow Bear said:
You don't send missionaries to the believers; you send them to the uninformed...

I see no problem with taking the opportunity to make a few 'converts', provided it doesn't line the pockets of those who would oppress us.

As far as actually giving the promoters any of my hard earned money, NEVER, EVER, EVER. No money for those who would trample our rights- not one penny. Vote with your wallets and your feet.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post. On one hand you seem to agree with the idea that the gun show patrons need to stand against the policy, yet on the other you advocate avoidance of those venues. Not sure how to do both at the same time. If you send missionaries to the cannibals you run the risk of them being tasted. Can you show me some businesses that have changed their policy because of one or two people boycotting them? The more we can get involved, the better a chance we have. However to get to those people we need to be visible at those places.

Shadow Bear · Feb 18, 2013

Ezerharden said:
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post. On one hand you seem to agree with the idea that the gun show patrons need to stand against the policy, yet on the other you advocate avoidance of those venues. Not sure how to do both at the same time. If you send missionaries to the cannibals you run the risk of them being tasted. Can you show me some businesses that have changed their policy because of one or two people boycotting them? The more we can get involved, the better a chance we have. However to get to those people we need to be visible at those places.

sorry; allow me to clarify-

Yes, it is OK to have a booth to recruit membership at shows that do not allow lawful carry.

No, it is not OK to financially support shows that undermine human rights.

I believe that once the missionaries give the cannibals a taste of a cheese burger, they'll give up 'long pig' willingly.

I agree that it will take a lot of people who will refuse to support those who oppress our rights to make a sufficient financial impact. There will always be those who will sell their rights for a few bucks. For those, there is no 'salvation', only slavery.

Ezerharden · Feb 18, 2013

Shadow Bear said:
sorry; allow me to clarify-

Yes, it is OK to have a booth to recruit membership at shows that do not allow lawful carry.

No, it is not OK to financially support shows that undermine human rights.

I believe that once the missionaries give the cannibals a taste of a cheese burger, they'll give up 'long pig' willingly.

I agree that it will take a lot of people who will refuse to support those who oppress our rights to make a sufficient financial impact. There will always be those who will sell their rights for a few bucks. For those, there is no 'salvation', only slavery.

Thanks for the clarification. As to the cheeseburger, that depends on where it came from. If it were made by my ex, they would go back to the missionaries lol

scot623 · Feb 19, 2013

Shadow Bear said:
sorry; allow me to clarify-

Yes, it is OK to have a booth to recruit membership at shows that do not allow lawful carry.

No, it is not OK to financially support shows that undermine human rights.

So would you actively tell every person at the table that MOC does not agree with the ban on lawful carry, and the table was free so we aren't supporting the venue financially?

Shadow Bear · Feb 19, 2013

scot623 said:
So would you actively tell every person at the table that MOC does not agree with the ban on lawful carry, and the table was free so we aren't supporting the venue financially?

Hmmm- perhaps not right there, probably at a later date, they would be 'exposed' to some truth on the forums, which may include some thoughts on the hypocrisy of selling guns, but not allowing them to be lawfully carried.

Yeah, sounds a little hypocritical, but I can live with that.

Haman J.T. · Feb 20, 2013

Shadow Bear said:
Hmmm- perhaps not right there, probably at a later date, they would be 'exposed' to some truth on the forums, which may include some thoughts on the hypocrisy of selling guns, but not allowing them to be lawfully carried.

Yeah, sounds a little hypocritical, but I can live with that.

AFree table to point out,to hundreds of people,that the policy they're forced to adhere to in order to enter the show,is unconstitutional and unsafe?Sounds like a great Idea,with a captive(usualy pro-gun) audience!

Raggs · Feb 20, 2013

Would the table be free? And the policy is dumb, not sure if it is unconstitutional.

hamaneggs said:
AFree table to point out,to hundreds of people,that the policy they're forced to adhere to in order to enter the show,is unconstitutional and unsafe?Sounds like a great Idea,with a captive(usualy pro-gun) audience!

Shadow Bear · Feb 20, 2013

hamaneggs said:
AFree table to point out,to hundreds of people,that the policy they're forced to adhere to in order to enter the show,is unconstitutional and unsafe?Sounds like a great Idea,with a captive(usualy pro-gun) audience!

It would appear that Gibraltar is privately owned & operated, so constitutionality is moot. Their property, their rules.

Our position should be that of 'starving' them financially because of their attitude toward human rights.

Haman J.T. · Feb 20, 2013

Raggs said:
Would the table be free? And the policy is dumb, not sure if it is unconstitutional.

I'm sure Infringement,by government is an absolute violation of Natural Rights,and an Infringement of The Public by those who entertain the Public also a violation of Natural Rights!

Raggs · Feb 20, 2013

I won't disagree, however I replied to the term unconstitutional. if it is private property I have no want of the Govt making them allow firearms at all.

hamaneggs said:
I'm sure Infringement,by government is an absolute violation of Natural Rights,and an Infringement of The Public by those who entertain the Public also a violation of Natural Rights!

New,Unsafe Protocall at Gibralter Trade in Mount Clemens(gun show?)!

TheQ

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scot623

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Raggs

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Ezerharden

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Shadow Bear

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Ezerharden

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Shadow Bear

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Ezerharden

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scot623

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Shadow Bear

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Haman J.T.

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Raggs

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Shadow Bear

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Haman J.T.

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