Wethersfield cop shoots, kills unarmed man

emsjeep said:

Man was sitting on private property in a vehicle, after business hours, at night, possibly obstructing the driveway, who knows what type of neighborhood this was, Officer likely knows that people don't sit in the driveway/parking lot of that business on a regular basis at night. Probably enough RAS for a brief detention, order out of the vehicle, pat down and a few questions. It went down hill in obvious ways from there on out. Contact in and of itself needs no justification and the standard for a brief detention is relatively low. RAS of what...drug crime, trespass, burglary. . . judging by the guy's response it seems that at least something was not right with the situation.

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Nobody sits in an empty lot at night? They must have never had a crappy car that broke down i guess....?

Heck, I side with the officer being innocent until proven guilty, but I find some posted reasoning a little alarming, so I will take the bait.

toadyrock said:

1. The “victim” had an extensive record

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I don't see how this is relevant, and I have no idea how the officer would know this beforehand anyway.

2. He was trespassing

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I don't see this anywhere in the article, but I also don't see how this is relevant. Officers deal with trespassing all the time and trespassing is a pretty minor offense. One that usually results in no arrest or prosecution in most cases since it can solved by the officer asking the person to leave.

3. If you had a suspicious vehicle trespassing in your area wouldn’t you want the cops to investigate?

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Of course. I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic at hand though.

4. Did the police officer choke himself to the point that he had to be hospitalized?

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I don't see where anyone has doubted this. I also don't see where this is mentioned in the article, other than:

Lord was injured during the fight and was transported to Hartford Hospital for treatment, state police said. Police declined to elaborate on his injuries.

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If they decide to not release any information, then they cannot expect people to make informed decisions based on the vacuum of knowledge they create.

5. I know the police officer and respect the hard work our officers of the law do.

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I believe everyone here shares the same general respect for LEOs. In fact, it is one of the main forum rules. We don't need to know the officer personally to respect his position.

6. I hope when the day comes and you board trolls need the help of a police officer, that they don’t investigate.

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Well, that is a nice sentiment, but I don't think your trolling is welcome here. If you don't like people having opinions about things and speaking their mind to ask questions about whether a LEO and a citizen would be treated the same way, I might suggest that this is not the forum for you. This forum is full of free thinkers who tend to verbalize questions and concerns over inequalities of the law.

I am not a cop.

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Interesting that you felt the need to state this with no accusations as a basis. I wonder why you would think that any of us would assume that a LEO would spew this kind of vitriol on a forum and try to silence people's opinions and questions. I for one expect more out of our LEOs, and I have too much respect for them to think that they would make such an emotionally distraught reply to good citizens questioning legalities of such an important topic such as self defense.

Claytron said:

Nobody sits in an empty lot at night? They must have never had a crappy car that broke down i guess....?

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Then again I don't, typically, book it on foot and abandon my car when approached by police who are rightfully suspicious....

sharkey said:

Gunslinger,

I have had several bad encounters with LE in my youth. I've been threatened and detained on enough false statements to have an inherent distrust in LE. In fact I attended protests against the Mesa police back when they were in killing spree mode. I think the protest was in 04. I question if that had anything to do with my DELAY on my first firearm purchase. The murder of Tasia Patton opened my eyes. I knew any citizen would at least be held accountable for manslaughter in a similar situation and I've always felt that those sworn to uphold the law should be held to a higher standard.

My point in all this is I am not an LE lover.

I do believe this officer is innocent until proven guilty. His statements, if true, show a justifiable kill. If there was a struggle for his weapon the man was armed. Retention training is a whole 'nother story.

By the way, I am happy to see that cops actually do get charged with murder these days.

soapbox/
Please remember, if/when you call police they are not there to mediate. They are there to arrest and trained to shoot at the first sign of danger. That includes hitting a police motorcycle in front of your vehicle even if the officer is behind you.
/soapbox

BTW, reading these articles again made my stomach churn. I think the police here have gotten much better but in the late 90's to early 2000's I hated and feared them. I'd personally been in more encounters with them than I care to admit and had their trigger-happy hands holding guns to my temple. When they weren't holding weapons to me they were concocting stories to search me and friends. I never once let them search me, I knew my rights then and I know them now.

Now the police call me sir and thank me.:lol: How the world changes.

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I don't disagree with you at all, and no one believes more feverantly than I 'in innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.' And I do not say the cop did anything wrong. My point is that history shows ...if he did...it will be whitewashed. There are way too many examples over the past year or two to draw any other conclusion.

toadyrock said:

A few nuggets for all you conspiracy theorist. 1. The “victim” had an extensive record, 2. He was trespassing 3. If you had a suspicious vehicle trespassing in your area wouldn’t you want the cops to investigate? 4. Did the police officer choke himself to the point that he had to be hospitalized? 5. I know the police officer and respect the hard work our officers of the law do. 6. I hope when the day comes and you board trolls need the help of a police officer, that they don’t investigate.

I am not a cop.

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No, you're an apologist for them. No trespass was committed; trespass is against the owner of the property who must call the police to have his property rights enforced. No one called the cop, he was "investigating." Fact: an unarmed man is dead, shot by the cop. Fact: no exculpatory evidence exists, just the cop's statement which is solely what the news story states. Maybe he is telling the truth; maybe he is covering something up by lying. No one will ever know the truth of the action outside of him. No one else is alive to testify. If it was a "righteous" shoot, that's fine and he did his job. If not it wouldn't be the first--or the twentyfirst, time that a "whitewash" has occurred in the past year or so concerning a shooting by a cop.
You have 5 posts on the forum. Before you start calling others "trolls," maybe you should add a few hundred more. You're the only troll I see on this thread.

Gunslinger said:

No, you're an apologist for them. No trespass was committed; trespass is against the owner of the property who must call the police to have his property rights enforced. No one called the cop, he was "investigating." Fact: an unarmed man is dead, shot by the cop. Fact: no exculpatory evidence exists, just the cop's statement which is solely what the news story states. Maybe he is telling the truth; maybe he is covering something up by lying. No one will ever know the truth of the action outside of him. No one else is alive to testify. If it was a "righteous" shoot, that's fine and he did his job. If not it wouldn't be the first--or the twentyfirst, time that a "whitewash" has occurred in the past year or so concerning a shooting by a cop.
You have 5 posts on the forum. Before you start calling others "trolls," maybe you should add a few hundred more. You're the only troll I see on this thread.

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Commenting on a CT thread from Colorado, Trolling the nation I see. Fact the new's does not report all facts. Fact the property is POSTED no tresspassing as you roll into the area. I live near it. It is the exception to the norm. Just like people I believe most police officers are good people, and looking to do the best for others. Personally knowing this police officer he left the Hartford Force because it was just to much, and was settling into this town life of reporting to underage drinking and car accidents. NO police officer wants to shoot someone. Sorry about all the name calling and I will drop it. I come to this site once a month to see if there is anything on the conceal and carry subject for CT, not to play consipracy theory about a police officer protecting himself after a suspect tries to fight him.

toadyrock said:

Commenting on a CT thread from Colorado, Trolling the nation I see.

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I am not sure what you are using as a definition of trolling, but Gunslinger is a well respected member of the community and he has engaged in nothing but civil conversation here. You, on the other hand, I cannot say the same for.

Sorry about all the name calling and I will drop it.

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Apparently not.

Fact the new's does not report all facts.

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Without a doubt. Since we all recognize this, why are you criticizing people here for having a civil conversation utilizing the (admittedly) limited facts presented in the article? Do you believe that no one should be allowed to discuss a news story or case until after a jury is through and FOI requests about all the details of the case are done?

Fact the property is POSTED no tresspassing as you roll into the area.

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How is anyone supposed to know this when it is not in the article? Perhaps you should be writing to the reporter that wrote the article and admonishing them for a poorly written article?

Also, what in the world does trespassing have to do with shooting someone?

NO police officer wants to shoot someone.

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Nor does any non LEO citizen, but that is not the issue here. The issue is a very real one, about the disparity regarding how a LEO is treated when he acts in self defense and how a citizen is treated in the same situation. If this LEO was not a LEO, he would be convicted of murder, plain and simple.

I come to this site once a month to see if there is anything on the conceal and carry subject for CT,

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You come to opencarry.org looking for concealed carry topics? Odd.

not to play consipracy theory about a police officer protecting himself after a suspect tries to fight him.

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I have yet to see anything from anyone but you about 'conspiracy theories', but if you don't understand the topic being discussed, you have all the right in the world to stay away from it and not discuss it. If you didn't want 'to play conspiracy theory', then why did you get involved?

As Rich has eloquently replied to your "points," one by one, I'll only add that this is a 'national' forum. If you took the time to look around, you'd see little if any parochialism state-wise. What affects CT may in fact have effect on CO--or any other state. And vice versa.

Gunslinger said:

As Rich has eloquently replied to your "points," one by one, I'll only add that this is a 'national' forum. If you took the time to look around, you'd see little if any parochialism state-wise. What affects CT may in fact have effect on CO--or any other state. And vice versa.

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Agreed. I have always appreciated your posts (as well as most of the other posters from out of state who comment here) in this CT forum. I am not sure what toady's problem with your posts are. I may or may not agree 100% with your assessment of the shooting, but I do respect and value your opinion on the matter. Those differences are what makes us a great community in the first place.

That is why our forum is a great one. We have many debates and disagreements, but we (usually) do it with reasoned discourse. I think just about all of us at some point or another have been influenced or have changed our mind completely on a topic by listening to others here.

On the other hand, jumping on a thread and calling everyone trolls while missing the point of the thread and making all sorts of illogical leaps and derisions really isn't of any value.

emsjeep said:

Why would he just blow the guy away for no reason? For a couple of days off? If the story happened as it is reported, this is justified, 100%, no question. He ran, struggled, tried to strangle the cop, attempted to take away his gun, the gun got loose, he got shot.

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Cover up an accident..that's one reason to lie.

emsjeep said:

Then again I don't, typically, book it on foot and abandon my car when approached by police who are rightfully suspicious....

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Then again seeing how we are both going by the words of the very man who shot the guy, we are both kind of speaking out of our asses, arent we?

You dont typically book it when approached by a cop? What about someone shining a light on you yelling GET OU OF THE CAR GET OUT OF THE CAR? Maybe the cop never announced himself AS a cop, or even at all? Maybe the man just pulled over because there was almost an accident? Maybe he thought someone had come up to him to roadrage his ass?

If you want to accept the words on someone who just killed a man, who has a career and propably a family to protect, as truth without question then thats your deal.

Claytron said:

You dont typically book it when approached by a cop? What about someone shining a light on you yelling GET OUT OF THE CAR GET OUT OF THE CAR? Maybe the cop never announce himself AS a cop, or even at all? Maybe the man just pulled over because there was almost an accident? Maybe he thought someone had come up to him to roadrage his ass?

If you want to accept the words on someone who just killed a man, who has a career and probably a family to protect, as truth without question then thats your deal.

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Fixed.