"Negros" OCing

How many black people on here OCing?

What has been your experience?

I ask because I get questioned a lot. I have been detained three times by police, once I was with my daughter at Chic-Fil-A. No one called; a LEO was eating, saw me OCing and detained me.

I wonder because I see several people post that they never have problems and if you conduct yourself a certain way you'll be fine OCing. I'm just trying to figure out the uncommon denominator.

I know GPD has race issues; they even have internal racial tension: http://www.yesweekly.com/article-9868-culture-of-impunity-unresolved-grievances-in-the-gpd.html

Also, judging by comments by former LEOs such as NCjones

NCjones said:

You're a nut, just like the negro who went packing at the abortion clinic then wanted to whine because he got jostled.

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it leads me to wonder if us "negros" should OC at all.

jp49911 said:

... it leads me to wonder if us "negros" should OC at all.

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Yes, you should.

Read up on the original BMWAG - Ken Blanchard
http://www.blackmeninamerica.com/bmwag.htm

14th Amendment

- I am sure your aware of (one of) the 14ths original intent was to protect newly freed men's right to keep and bear arms - so to answer your question - YES - You should always fight for your rights, then, now, and tomorrow, and ALL of us (black, white, asian, hispanic, men, women, of various race, religion and creed, etc, etc, - ) AMERICANS who believe in the bill of rights, and our country, and eachother need to stand strong together as equals in an effort to show the backward trogs and trolls that we can and will end up on top as a free people.

- Do not let go of your freedom, you do not stand alone.

Bat.

Not only should you, but you should do so proudly.

Additionally you should take the time to fully read the majority opinions in McDonald V Chicago, There is extensive background on how gun control laws were used to disarm minorities post civil war.

Additionally you might want to read this:

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html

Might I ask how you dress when you OC?

I usually make it a point to dress a bit more "business casual" whenever I OC due to my age (younger people are inherently prone to violence I guess).

Absolutely you should OC.

jp49911 said:

How many black people on here OCing?

What has been your experience?

I ask because I get questioned a lot. I have been detained three times by police, once I was with my daughter at Chic-Fil-A. No one called; a LEO was eating, saw me OCing and detained me.

I wonder because I see several people post that they never have problems and if you conduct yourself a certain way you'll be fine OCing. I'm just trying to figure out the uncommon denominator.

I know GPD has race issues; they even have internal racial tension: http://www.yesweekly.com/article-9868-culture-of-impunity-unresolved-grievances-in-the-gpd.html

Also, judging by comments by former LEOs such as NCjones
it leads me to wonder if us "negros" should OC at all.

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I'm very shocked and disappointed by your reported experiences. While this country has came a long way, there's obviously still a way to go. Yes, you should excercise your rights.

Have you taken effective action to protect your right to not be detained?

jp49911 said:

I have been detained three times by police,

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Have you taken effective action to protect your right to not be detained? Do you know what is arrest/detention and when it is wrong?

It is dangerous for a black person to carry, you know what danbus went through. Hell, it's dangerous for a white man who graduated from West Point, has a masters from Duke and is a medical device salesman to carry...

In Tennessee in the 1870's they made all sorts of laws which basically restricted the black man's rights. The saturday night special laws and the army/navy in the hand laws are the ones which come to mind.

As a black man if you sue cops for violating your rights you're still facing an uphill battle with the judge and jury. Racism is still very much alive.

BTW, congratulations on the recent court victories!

Las Vegan said:

Yes, you should.

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+1

kwikrnu said:

In Tennessee in the 1870's they made all sorts of laws which basically restricted the black man's rights. The saturday night special laws and the army/navy in the hand laws are the ones which come to mind.

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The origin of Gun Control dates back to post Civil War times where certain folks were afraid of former slaves getting their hands on guns.

Hell yes

jp49911 said:

How many black people on here OCing?

What has been your experience?

I ask because I get questioned a lot. I have been detained three times by police, once I was with my daughter at Chic-Fil-A. No one called; a LEO was eating, saw me OCing and detained me.

I wonder because I see several people post that they never have problems and if you conduct yourself a certain way you'll be fine OCing. I'm just trying to figure out the uncommon denominator.

I know GPD has race issues; they even have internal racial tension: http://www.yesweekly.com/article-9868-culture-of-impunity-unresolved-grievances-in-the-gpd.html

Also, judging by comments by former LEOs such as NCjones
it leads me to wonder if us "negros" should OC at all.

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Carry a voice recorder, stay calm and search our great froum for information on how not to get violated. Be sure to research your state Laws regarding recording of conversations then have at it. then when they detain you unlawfully sue them. that is horsecrap in this day and age!!

Welcome to OCDO. I hope that race doesn't become an issue for you when you OC, but we all know that sometimes it does, so you need to prepare yourself.

Grapeshot is dead-on with the Kenn Blanchard recommendation. Ken is a real "stand-up" guy, and has a TON of experience with firearms and the law. If you go searching the web for him, be sure to spell his name correctly though:

Kenn Blanchard

if you spell "Ken" with one "n", you'll get info on an old white guy who does corporate motivation seminars...

Kenn has a Podcast that isn't specifically OC (he lives in MD, near the DC border, and even though he has a MC permit, and is an ex-Federal Agent and a minister now, OC isn't really an option for him...) But his show is funny, educational, and he addresses the problems that "people of color" have when it comes to exercising their gun rights.

http://urbanshooterpodcast.com/

Kenn has also written a small book addressing this issue, entitled "Black Man With A Gun," that addresses many of the issues you may face with family, friends, and your community as an African American exercising your Second Amendment rights:

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Man-Gun-Kenneth-Blanchard/dp/156167656X

There are also several members of this forum from NC that are "African American", so if you ask around, you might be able to get some pointers from them. I'm a white, middle-aged dude, so my personal experiences are only marginally applicable to what YOU may encounter.

just remember, politeness is ALWAYS your friend. Be firm, but polite. Mouthing off or being rude or preachy to a cop will get you NOWHERE. Having a copy of the NC OC brochure in your pocket might be a good idea. And carrying a voice or video recorder is pretty much REQUIRED if the LEO's in your area are know for harassing OCers...

You need to research and study the history of gun laws. This topic is PARTICULARLY important for you, because EVERY gun law on the books (not just in NC, but in EVERY state and on the federal level) was put in place due to racist attitudes. There is a FANTASTIC essay written by a scholar named Clayton E. Cramer entitled "The Racist Roots of Gun Control". It is a CRITICAL piece of reading for anyone interested in gun rights, civil rights, and racial issues in America:

http://www.constitution.org/cmt/cramer/racist_roots.htm

Please stay in touch, and let us know how things go for you. This forum is VERY supportive, and there are some folks on here who know the law VERY well and can give you pointers and advice that may help keep you out of trouble.

The gun laws in NC are a little weird, and there are all sorts of little oddball exceptions where you CAN'T carry that just don't make any sense. So study the laws and ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS on this forum.

The biggest advice I can give to you is DO NOT ask a cop for advice on gun laws. Most of them don't know the laws very well, and they tend to just make stuff up when they don't know, rather than say they don't know. I've actually had cops tell me things were illegal when the law says they are PERFECTLY legal, and I've also had cops tell me things were OK when they were plainly illegal under NC law. Cops can't be held legally responsible for giving bad or incorrect advice, but YOU can be held liable for know knowing the law if you break it.

Knowing the law is YOUR responsibility. Ask lots of questions. If we don't know the answer, we'll help you find it.

Welcome, and good luck!

Clayton has a blog

http://claytonecramer.blogspot.com/

I have found him to be very responsive to people that contact him with questions or for info. Do not hesitate to seek his information.

I don't carry a recorder. But if I were in your situation I would start. Here is some info on NC, we are a one party consent state.

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/north-carolina/north-carolina-recording-law

Also, did you ask if you were being detained? Just curious. Some folks feel that any conversation started by a LEO is a detention. But realistically, some of them are just mutual conversations that folks do not know they can walk away from. A good series of questions would be....

Am I being detained? (If yes then you have your answer, if no then ask) Am I free to go? (If yes, you can leave. If no you have a confused LEO on your hands.)

And since case law in NC states that simply carrying a firearm is no offense, State v Huntley, it could be argued that simply carrying a firearm legally is not grounds for a Terry Stop. Though the lower threshold for RAS is problematic for the OC'er.

As always IANAL, YMMV, blah blah.

I think we can ALL stand to review the timeless wisdom of Chris Rock, with regards to how to deal with police interactions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&feature=related

Sure this is comedy, and he's trying to be funny, but a LOT of what he says is SPOT ON for us in the OC world.

Especially his advice to "STFU"...

I thnk it was the abortion clinic thing that got you detained, not the "negro" thing. I have a lot of black friends who OC on a daily basis. I suspect if the cops saw a white guy or any other color guy OCing at an abortion clinic protest they would stop and ask questions.

I suspect they were reluctant to do their job because they know it would get twisted into a race thing and not a OC thing. We all know it's always because of race when any non-white gets detained for any reason, don't we?

I understand your defense was you were just "in the area" getting your car worked on, but in your video you say, several times, "Are WE protesting, or are WE peaceably assembling" which indicates you were a participant of whatever was going on there.

Anthony_I_Am said:

I thnk it was the abortion clinic thing that got you detained, not the "negro" thing. I have a lot of black friends who OC on a daily basis. I suspect if the cops saw a white guy or any other color guy OCing at an abortion clinic protest they would stop and ask questions.

I suspect they were reluctant to do their job because they know it would get twisted into a race thing and not a OC thing. We all know it's always because of race when any non-white gets detained for any reason, don't we?

I understand your defense was you were just "in the area" getting your car worked on, but in your video you say, several times, "Are WE protesting, or are WE peaceably assembling" which indicates you were a participant of whatever was going on there.

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hmmm...never said I was in the are getting my car worked on (that was a separate incident) so you "understand" wrong. Never said those charges had anything to do with race. I wasn't near any protest when I was at Chic-Fil-A with my daughter and was detained (and I did ask if I was being detained; officer said yes). When I asked what laws I was being investigated for breaking he said "any laws". I guess that means I was suspected of breaking all laws since I was being investigated for "any" law.

Wasn't near a protest when I was detained on my way into Walmart. Another incident where there was no call to the police; they just happened to see me.

I have been OC'ing for 16 mths and detained on three separate occasions not to mention the countless comments/questions I get from employees/managers.

Then I was refereed to as a "negro" by a former LEO on this very forum.

GPD is being sued by dozens of minority officers for discrimination.

I think this is a fair discussion.

By the way, yelling "turn around" as you reach for your gun is not "asking some questions". Trumped up charges and a search warrant aren't "asking questions". $20,000 bond on three misdemeanors isn't "asking questions". Executing the warrant with half a dozen officers in swat gear isn't "asking questions".

TheFreeman said:

Might I ask how you dress when you OC?

I usually make it a point to dress a bit more "business casual" whenever I OC due to my age (younger people are inherently prone to violence I guess).

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Varies. I used to "dress nice" when I first started. Now I don't make any effort; just whatever I happen to have on.

One of the occasions I was detained I did have on a nice sweater with a nice pair of jeans; pretty clean cut that day