Comming to visit, what are the rules?

OK Visitor · Jun 5, 2015

I will be visiting the Show Me state tonight, and through the weekend. I have a valid Oklahoma weapons permit. In Oklahoma my permit allows for both Concealed Carry, as well as Open Carry (in the standard places that it is allowed). I cannot seem to find any solid information on whether or not Missouri law allows the same freedoms that I enjoy at home. We do have a reciprocity agreement between our 2 states, but I don't want to be educated the "hard way".

So, if someone could indulge me, am I allowed to Open Carry while I visit, or is it Concealed Carry only?

I thank you in advance for any assistance.

P.S. I tried to contact SLMPD for this information, and the officer I spoke to didn't know, and while he was "checking into it", I could hear the tik tik of his keyboard in the background. He also informed me that I should keep my loaded handgun in plain view in my vehicle while driving anywhere in Missouri during my visit. The last thing I want an officer (or anyone for that matter) seeing my weapon before I have the opportunity to inform them myself. I have this thing about being pulled out of my vehicle at gunpoint.

OC for ME · Jun 5, 2015

OK Visitor said:
I will be visiting the Show Me state tonight, and through the weekend. I have a valid Oklahoma weapons permit. In Oklahoma my permit allows for both Concealed Carry, as well as Open Carry (in the standard places that it is allowed). I cannot seem to find any solid information on whether or not Missouri law allows the same freedoms that I enjoy at home. We do have a reciprocity agreement between our 2 states, but I don't want to be educated the "hard way".

So, if someone could indulge me, am I allowed to Open Carry while I visit, or is it Concealed Carry only?

I thank you in advance for any assistance.

Here ya go.

21.750.3. (1) Except as provided in subdivision (2) of this subsection, nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243. No ordinance shall be construed to preclude the use of a firearm in the defense of person or property, subject to the provisions of chapter 563.
(2) In any jurisdiction in which the open carrying of firearms is prohibited by ordinance, the open carrying of firearms shall not be prohibited in accordance with the following:
(a) Any person with a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit who is open carrying a firearm shall be required to have a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit from this state, or a permit from another state that is recognized by this state, in his or her possession at all times;

(b) Any person open carrying a firearm in such jurisdiction shall display his or her concealed carry endorsement or permit upon demand of a law enforcement officer;
(c) In the absence of any reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity, no person carrying a concealed or unconcealed firearm shall be disarmed or physically restrained by a law enforcement officer unless under arrest; and

(d) Any person who violates this subdivision shall be subject to the penalty provided in section 571.121.

https://ago.mo.gov/divisions/public-safety/concealed-carry-reciprocity

P.S. I tried to contact SLMPD for this information, and the officer I spoke to didn't know, and while he was "checking into it", I could hear the tik tik of his keyboard in the background. He also informed me that I should keep my loaded handgun in plain view in my vehicle while driving anywhere in Missouri during my visit. The last thing I want an officer (or anyone for that matter) seeing my weapon before I have the opportunity to inform them myself. I have this thing about being pulled out of my vehicle at gunpoint.

Do not call any LEA, especially, STLMPD. Carry peaceably as you see fit.

Where ya can't go on your permit.

http://moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57100001071.html?&me=571

All ya need other than a audio recording device at a minimum.

Welcome to Mo and safe travels.

Note: Avoid north STL city/STL county if you can, not as safe as it was this time last year...unfortunately.

OK Visitor · Jun 5, 2015

OC for ME,

I thank you sir. Extremely helpful. I am printing that excerpt for reference in case i get pulled over, or approached by any local LEO.

I am planning on concealed carry only for this trip as I am going to try and avoid drawing any attention to myself. I knew about North St Louis, but I thank you for the warning about STL County. I will be spending the majority of my time around the Wentzville area.

OC for ME · Jun 5, 2015

OK Visitor said:
OC for ME,

I thank you sir. Extremely helpful. I am printing that excerpt for reference in case i get pulled over, or approached by any local LEO.

I am planning on concealed carry only for this trip as I am going to try and avoid drawing any attention to myself. I knew about North St Louis, but I thank you for the warning about STL County. I will be spending the majority of my time around the Wentzville area.

My pleasure Sir, pleased to be of assistance. Enjoy your visit.

Ezek · Jun 5, 2015

wow.. reading the rsmo571. I did not realize that the frontal area of the airport could be walked around with a weapon ( prior to gate check or whatever it is called, restricting you due to inspection of persons) so we are alot like Georgia apparently.

if your wondering it is subsection 8.

BB62 · Jun 5, 2015

Ezek said:
wow.. reading the rsmo571. I did not realize that the frontal area of the airport could be walked around with a weapon ( prior to gate check or whatever it is called, restricting you due to inspection of persons) so we are alot like Georgia apparently...

I was just talking to LMTD (a MO member here) about this regarding STL tonight. His strong advice is NOT to do so without advance notice and discussions with authorities. Although it may be legal, in no way would I (or he) expect them to know that.

BB62 · Jun 5, 2015

OC for ME said:
...Do not call any LEA, especially, STLMPD...

+1000

Ezek · Jun 6, 2015

BB62 said:
I was just talking to LMTD (a MO member here) about this regarding STL tonight. His strong advice is NOT to do so without advance notice and discussions with authorities. Although it may be legal, in no way would I (or he) expect them to know that.

true, but without exercising it, and maybe having a copy of the law on hand, how to any of us expect to make any progress? but I can see how it would cause a huge hiccup and potential situation.

so it's kinda catch22..

are airports private owned business? is the "lobby" or check in place included in the private ownership?

bmhenry · Jun 8, 2015

To the OP; I personally OC in Wentzville and surrounding areas all the time and have had zero issues. I live in said area. Also, MO is a "51%" state, you are not allowed to legally carry a firearm (concealed or openly) into an establishment that gets 51% or more of its revenue from alochol sales, just incase you were going out with friends for dinner/drinks.

Welcom to MO, have fun and be safe.

deepdiver · Jun 8, 2015

Ezek said:
wow.. reading the rsmo571. I did not realize that the frontal area of the airport could be walked around with a weapon ( prior to gate check or whatever it is called, restricting you due to inspection of persons) so we are alot like Georgia apparently.

if your wondering it is subsection 8.

I have dropped off people curbside at the airport several times while CC but have never gone inside the buildings. I think I was made once printing while removing luggage from the vehicle but despite some visual scrutiny (and maybe that was just my perception) nothing else. I have not had occasion to be there since OC preemption went into effect and have not thought about it until now.

LMTD · Jun 9, 2015

Ezek said:
true, but without exercising it, and maybe having a copy of the law on hand, how to any of us expect to make any progress? but I can see how it would cause a huge hiccup and potential situation.

so it's kinda catch22..

are airports private owned business? is the "lobby" or check in place included in the private ownership?

You missed the part where BB said "without advanced notice" meaning you make it clear that it is going to happen then no matter how they try and discourage you you do it any way.

We have some of the WORST TSA and Police at the STL airport imho and a seriously dangerous swat type response might be triggered without regard to legality and while it is a great cause, live to fight another day is a good motto.

advising them first gives them a chance to train instead of some idiot yelling GUN and next thing you know you have 25 .40 pointed at you with nervous poorly trained persons thinking they are going to have to shoot you.

Ezek · Jun 10, 2015

LMTD said:
You missed the part where BB said "without advanced notice" meaning you make it clear that it is going to happen then no matter how they try and discourage you you do it any way.

We have some of the WORST TSA and Police at the STL airport imho and a seriously dangerous swat type response might be triggered without regard to legality and while it is a great cause, live to fight another day is a good motto.

advising them first gives them a chance to train instead of some idiot yelling GUN and next thing you know you have 25 .40 pointed at you with nervous poorly trained persons thinking they are going to have to shoot you.

point made.

Redbaron007 · Jun 11, 2015

bmhenry said:
To the OP; I personally OC in Wentzville and surrounding areas all the time and have had zero issues. I live in said area. Also, MO is a "51%" state, you are not allowed to legally carry a firearm (concealed or openly) into an establishment that gets 51% or more of its revenue from alochol sales, just incase you were going out with friends for dinner/drinks.

Welcom to MO, have fun and be safe.

Please cite your reference.

LMTD · Jun 11, 2015

Redbaron007 said:
Please cite your reference.

Mo revised Statutes starting in 2004 through approximately 2012

your becoming more like me *evil grin*

Redbaron007 · Jun 12, 2015

LMTD said:
Mo revised Statutes starting in 2004 through approximately 2012

your becoming more like me *evil grin*

:uhoh: Oh Shift!!

I think bmhenry is referring to 571.107.1.7. I don't think he realizes it is not an unlawful act; unless you are intoxicated. If not, maybe he can correct me....which I'm always open to.

bmhenry · Jun 12, 2015

Redbaron,

My statement was in reference to: 571.107.1.7. "Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry permit or endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated;"

It was my understanding that it was not "authorized" to carry concealed/open into an establishment that derives its revenue of 49% or more from alochol sales alone. Please correct me if I am wrong and where my understanding is incorrect. Thanks.

Is this an instance where I misused the terminology of "legal" in my original post, and that is the incorrect defination?

Redbaron007 · Jun 12, 2015

bmhenry said:
Redbaron,

My statement was in reference to: 571.107.1.7. "Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry permit or endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated;"

It was my understanding that it was not "authorized" to carry concealed/open into an establishment that derives its revenue of 49% or more from alochol sales alone. Please correct me if I am wrong and where my understanding is incorrect. Thanks.

Is this an instance where I misused the terminology of "legal" in my original post, and that is the incorrect defination?

It's not 'illegal' to enter, but if asked to leave, do so. There is no illegal activity until you become intoxicated and/or refuse to leave.

Remember, terminology makes a difference. I too make this misunderstanding occasionally.

bmhenry · Jun 12, 2015

Thanks Redbaron! We are definatly on the same page, and tanks for the friendly reminder. Terminology and defination, does indeed, matter siginificantly.

Morpheus97 · Jun 12, 2015

Redbaron007 said:
It's not 'illegal' to enter, but if asked to leave, do so. There is no illegal activity until you become intoxicated and/or refuse to leave.

Remember, terminology makes a difference. I too make this misunderstanding occasionally.

I believe it was changed a few years ago to be clear that it is not illegal to be intoxicated and carrying, but it is illegal to do something careless with a firearm while intoxicated. I'm on my phone at the airport so I don't have the statute readily available to cite

deepdiver · Jun 12, 2015

Morpheus97 said:
I believe it was changed a few years ago to be clear that it is not illegal to be intoxicated and carrying, but it is illegal to do something careless with a firearm while intoxicated. I'm on my phone at the airport so I don't have the statute readily available to cite

As I recall the revision (geesh, maybe 5 years ago?) added the "and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner"

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

SNIP

(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;

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