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Standing around with a gun on your hip...

joejoejoe

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
319
Location
Vancouver, WA
So recently with this cold weather, I have not been OCing. This is probably why I have not been frequenting the boards as of late. Anyways, I was thinking about OC the other day when I was at Fred Meyer with my wife. She usually uses the restroom there, and I got to thinking: How odd would this look if I had been OCing.

My question is this: What type of reactions have you received from standing around with your gun? Standing outside a restroom? Standing in a church hallway? Waiting for a friend at a restaurant?

With the recent arrests of citizens who have been found guilty of "warranting alarm," I wonder how YOU prepare yourself for times when you will be standing around with a gun on your hip.

Joe~
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
So recently with this cold weather, I have not been OCing. This is probably why I have not been frequenting the boards as of late. Anyways, I was thinking about OC the other day when I was at Fred Meyer with my wife. She usually uses the restroom there, and I got to thinking: How odd would this look if I had been OCing.

My question is this: What type of reactions have you received from standing around with your gun? Standing outside a restroom? Standing in a church hallway? Waiting for a friend at a restaurant?

With the recent arrests of citizens who have been found guilty of "warranting alarm," I wonder how YOU prepare yourself for times when you will be standing around with a gun on your hip.

Joe~

Well only one citizen has been found guilty of 'warranting alarm' and only in Vancouver, WA.

But you are very wise to draw together the conclusion from both Josh's trial and Kirby's deal. Both were 'loitering' around a business with an openly carried firearm in Vancouver. Generally, I don't just hang around while I OC. I continue to shop or go about my business. This was the same before I OC'd and was a CCer. Note that both Josh and Kirby were outside of the business when ticketed.

My suggestion is to not loiter outside of a business while OC in Vancouver. Go inside and shop.
 

Batousaii

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
It's legal...

My general attitude is to carry and go about my business in relatively the same manner whether or not I am armed. Unless it is a unlawful to carry in a particular place or manner, then i do as I would normally do.

- I do fully understand the concerns about "image", and cater to that via my body language and remaining approachable. I have stood around waiting for my wife with my arm OC and haven't had any negative encounters for it, usually i am inside (i don't generally loom around the outside of stores).

Just my thought :)
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
Up to and after the cold spell we recently had, I was still OC'ing. I stood around at Seatac Airport for almost an hour waiting on my son, no issues. If I am out shopping with the family and have to wait in one spot for a while, I make it a point to look like I am suppose to be there and act normally, no matter the location.
 

Deleted_User

Guest
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
807
Ya know ...

I actually had a similar thought at the Bonney Lake Walmart. My daughter had to use the bathroom and I really didn't want to stand next to them OC and wait for her. I don't know, but I thought about Vancouver and decided to look at books and magazines and the little checkstand displays while I waited for her. It did curb just for a moment my thoughts about standing outside the bathroom waiting for her. The door was with-in sight at all times but still.

Lastly, I usually get wierd reactions while holding a door for someone OC. That's about all the "standing around" I do though

Joe (cubed)- GREAT Thread question!
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I've done it several times to me it's no different than if you were standing around concealed or with no weapon. Making OC natural is also a state of mind, if it doesn't feel natural to you others will perceive this.
 

skiingislife725

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
400
Location
Lake Stevens, WA
I've done it several times to me it's no different than if you were standing around concealed or with no weapon. Making OC natural is also a state of mind, if it doesn't feel natural to you others will perceive this.

Exactly. The goal of trying to normalize atleast the idea of open carry is a big reason why I do it. I just try to act like I always act and hopefully that can ease people's irrational conceptions about people with guns. If you feel uncomfortable standing around outside of the bathrooms, then go look at the deals in Shotgun News in the magazine section. No biggie...just do what you normally do.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
psst, NavyLt, try the slash that looks like this / . It'll make the "quote" box work better.


I totally agree with your statements that one needs to decide when and where to OC as well as compliance with requests for ID. While one might be going about a perfectly normal activity, the addition of an exposed firearm can cause others to view it as far from ordinary. If one is hanging out near the restrooms waiting for a spouse, others might view it differently. An example is the Fred Meyer where I frequently shop. The "hallway" where the restrooms are located also serves the offices of the store. The same hallway that the Armored Car Guard carries the money down on his way in/out. Likewise at the local Safeway where the stairs to their office is located next to the restroom. Seeing an armed person in those locations, just hanging out, might be viewed by others as more sinister than just waiting for one's spouse. Some might want to hold her purse to make it more obvious as to their purpose.

People need to remember that Police are often called because of what people think a gun carrier is doing rather than what they are actually doing.
 

joejoejoe

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
319
Location
Vancouver, WA
Some might want to hold her purse to make it more obvious as to their purpose.

People need to remember that Police are often called because of what people think a gun carrier is doing rather than what they are actually doing.

I like that idea :)

Unfortunately for the Fred Meyer that WE frequent, the restrooms are away from any magazine racks. I think my only options are take a REALLY long drink from the drinking fountain, stand there and watch people (what I'd normally do while CC), or check out the medicine that is right next to the restroom.

I also like that you said we have to feel natural doing it, or others might perceive us as unnatural.

Joe~
 

USMC1911

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
190
Location
Vancouver, Washington, USA
I go about my day to day business just like all the other sheeple. I ask no quarter, I give no quarter. I am an honest, hard working, law abiding citizen, which just happens to be armed. I grocery shop, I take my wife to dinner, I go to a movie, just like all the other sheeple. I conduct myself the same whether I have a sidearm on or not.
Semper Fi
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Well only one citizen has been found guilty of 'warranting alarm' and only in Vancouver, WA.

But you are very wise to draw together the conclusion from both Josh's trial and Kirby's deal. Both were 'loitering' around a business with an openly carried firearm in Vancouver. Generally, I don't just hang around while I OC. I continue to shop or go about my business. This was the same before I OC'd and was a CCer. Note that both Josh and Kirby were outside of the business when ticketed.

My suggestion is to not loiter outside of a business while OC in Vancouver. Go inside and shop.

You also have to remember that Josh's incident occurred either late at night or early in the morning on a nearly empty street outside a business that was minutes from closing. I just think that when we evaluate our own behaviors based upon other situations we need to take into account the totality of the situation. I personally can't really make much decision for myself based on Kirby because we don't know how a jury would decide on his case.

Here's one of my rules of thumb: how many unarmed American's every day stand outside a bathroom and wait for their companions, especially during normal business hours while shopping. I would say plenty. How many unarmed American's every day eat dinner at a restaurant at dinnertime? Even more. So in neither of those cases would I do anything at all to change my behavior. In Washington it is supposed to be the behavior and circumstances that make the gun suspicious; as opposed to the gun making a behavior suspicious.

I have been detained by the police for eating dinner in a restaurant at dinner time. But that incident would and has in no way deterred me from open carrying in the same circumstances. But in Josh's circumstances... I would probably conceal or submit to the police requests a bit more... that is just me, not saying Josh did anything at all wrong.

I want to draw the distinction that maybe was missed. I said and will continue to say OUTSIDE of the business. (not sure why you ommited that in my small quote) But I will concur with you NavyLT, it was late at night and OUTSIDE of a business. And I also agree, Josh did absolutely nothing wrong. He had no intent to commit a criminal act, he DID NOT commit a criminal act.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
more,,,

some other points,,
josh was standing around in front of a business that had been recently Robbed!
josh had not caused concern for anybody until the cops told the people
inside the business that a MWAG was outside!
 

Batousaii

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
some other points,,
josh was standing around in front of a business that had been recently Robbed!
josh had not caused concern for anybody until the cops told the people
inside the business that a MWAG was outside!

Of course, how else could one create the hysterics needed to incite a condition worthy of warranting alarm?
 

Lovenox

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
538
Location
Olympia
Exactly. The goal of trying to normalize atleast the idea of open carry is a big reason why I do it. I just try to act like I always act and hopefully that can ease people's irrational conceptions about people with guns. If you feel uncomfortable standing around outside of the bathrooms, then go look at the deals in Shotgun News in the magazine section. No biggie...just do what you normally do.

+10
 

spikeXD45

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
19
Location
vancouver
Unfortunatly in this area, Vancouver, it is already at the point of if anyone sees your weapon, either in the course of your daily life or standing waiting for your daughter outside the rest room, "warrents alarm" and depending on how bad a day the leo is haveing determines on a ticket.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Unfortunatly in this area, Vancouver, it is already at the point of if anyone sees your weapon, either in the course of your daily life or standing waiting for your daughter outside the rest room, "warrents alarm" and depending on how bad a day the leo is haveing determines on a ticket.

Not after Drew and Josh get done with them!!!! :lol:
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Unfortunatly in this area, Vancouver, it is already at the point of if anyone sees your weapon, either in the course of your daily life or standing waiting for your daughter outside the rest room, "warrents alarm" and depending on how bad a day the leo is haveing determines on a ticket.

And yet there was a picnic held in Vancouver that drew no police attention. Just think how many tickets they could have written if this was truly the case.
 
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