Pediatricians survey - "Is there a loaded weapon in the house?"

Marco · Oct 13, 2011

said:
He said that it was a standard question on all their standard forms.

It was started a few yrs back (2008 iirc).
The program is called Common Sense about Kids and Guns and it is a nonpartisan group co-founded by Kennedy that has worked for more than two years to promote responsible gun ownership and firearm storage practices.

I always write none of your business, when questioned by anyone about anything that is none of their business.

I did have one physician question me about my answer, my response "are you trained or qualified to teach/train others in the use of firearms?".
If so, please provide documentation, are you prepared to be sued for giving false/misleading and potentially bad advice.
Then I went on to explain how the CDC's firearm data was misleading/flat out lies.

The funniest part about the whole encounter is I was OC'ing during the visit. That was our last visit to that Dr. office.
Our current peds office has a statment asking parents with firearms and other potentially dangerous items (swimming pool/large dogs/farm equipment) in or around the home to educate their family members about safe usage.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/doctors-epidemic.htm

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2541622/posts

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=396&issue=023

http://www.policyalmanac.org/crime/archive/firearms_and_crime.shtml

nuc65 · Oct 13, 2011

Agent19 said:
It was started a few yrs back (2008 iirc).
The program is called Common Sense about Kids and Guns and it is a nonpartisan group co-founded by Kennedy that has worked for more than two years to promote responsible gun ownership and firearm storage practices.

I always write none of your business, when questioned by anyone about anything that is none of their business.

I did have one physician question me about my answer, my response "are you trained or qualified to teach/train others in the use of firearms.
If so, please provide documentation, are you prepared to be sued for giving false/misleading and potentially bad advice.
Then I went on to explain how the CDC's firearm data was misleading/flat out lies. There happened to be a recently article that proved the CDC's info was flawed, I had a link but lost it.

The funniest part about the whole encounter is I was OC'ing during the visit. That was our last visit to that Dr. office.
Our current peds office has a statment asking parents with firearms and other potentially dangerous items (swimming pool/large dogs/farm equipment) in or around the home to educate their family members about safe usage.

See now, when I go to my Dr.'s we end up talking guns. He has shown me his (he keeps it in his desk) with great delight and tells me what he has bought, what he is selling. My dentist has never had an issue with it either. I usually end up getting chased out by a nurse so he'll go back to work.

Marco · Oct 13, 2011

Baked on Grease said:
I left my bank of 8 years because they required.... REQUIRED a SSN to open a new account.

ask for the spanish and english forms, fill out the spanish forms as SSN is omitted, us the english forms as your guide.

BOT:
It wasn't my dr. that questioned me about my NOYBA, it was our former/short term pediatrician, thery were dropped after that visit.
My Dr and I talk guns/dogs/hunting, as I just arranged for him to get a ADBA reg APBT.
The Dr that delivered my son took a H&K USP elite in 45acp and CHP class in lieu of $.

Our current peds office has no issue with me carrying openly, even though a few parents have complained.

FFchris · Oct 13, 2011

Being that my wife and I are expecting our first child in March, we haven't experienced this yet. This topic will be something to add to our list of considerations for when we start looking for a pediatrician.

Cmdr_Haggis · Oct 13, 2011

Our kids' pediatrician's office asked the same question. The question is not as underhanded as might appear at first glance.

Every pediatrician we looked into when searching for our kids' doctor is a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics. That group isn't necessarily anti-gun, but they seem to hold no reservations about reminding people who own guns that safety is paramount.

There is a brochure, for example, which outlines some basic concerns parents should have about guns in their home, or a child's friend's home.

My wife and I, like so many responsible gun owners, are safe and diligent with regard to our guns. The AAP is reminding parents that, while we might be safe, others might not be as safety conscious about their own guns. I figure that a pediatrician is doing his/her part in safety by at least posing the question. And I kindly refuse to acknowledge random "gun surveys".

Grapeshot · Oct 13, 2011

Baked on Grease said:
--snip--

It is still illegal to use the SSN as an identification number for uses other than paying SS taxes, IIRC.

Believe that restriction was dropped years ago. There are apparently a number of instances where SS# can be required.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/78/~/legal-requirements-to-provide-your-ssn

TFred · Oct 13, 2011

wylde007 said:
It's a heck of a stretch to go from "Are there loaded guns in the house" to "Guns are bad, m'kay."

My pediatrician asked that question a few times and I said it's none of your business. Of course, when I OC'ed to their offices I was told about a super-secret internal memo which forbid me from carrying. When I asked to see it AND if I could have a copy, they hesitated. They finally let me see it, since I wasn't leaving until they did - and then I snapped a picture of it with my phone cam.

I am STILL waiting on a resolution from them. This thread has inspired me to reinitiate contact.

So let me get this straight... this doctor would probably have no problem treating an illegal drug user, an illegal alien, people who have committed any number of other crimes, yet has a policy to not treat you (denying you access to their office) for exercising a CONSTITUTIONALLY protected RIGHT!? (And yeah yeah, I know all about private property, blah blah blah). How does this square with that Hippocratic Oath?

TFred

SFCRetired · Oct 13, 2011

For far too many doctors, that should be "Hypocritical" oath.

Guys, it's not just pediatricians who do this. A lot of "Family Practice" and "Geriatric" practices have that question on their patient intake forms.

I'm not sure if it's an AMA thing (known to be very anti-Second Amendment) or some other organization. Every time I've encountered it, I've left it blank. Only a couple of times have I been pressured to answer it. Both times, I requested a return of all my paperwork and went looking for another doctor.

Cmdr_Haggis · Oct 13, 2011

TFred said:
So let me get this straight... this doctor would probably have no problem treading an illegal drug user, an illegal alien, people who have committed any number of other crimes, yet has a policy to not treat you (denying you access to their office) for exercising a CONSTITUTIONALLY protected RIGHT!? (And yeah yeah, I know all about private property, blah blah blah). How does this square with that Hippocratic Oath?

TFred

If we take our business of banking, shopping, movie watching, dining, exercise, and any other numerous activities elsewhere when we are confronted by a "No Guns" philosophy then should it not apply equally to a doctor's office (and his private property)?

As to the Hippocratic Oath, I'd be much more concerned being turned away at the emergency room just because I carried a gun rather than carrying during a normal doctor's visit.

If a physician would rather treat an illegal alien, drug user, criminal, etc rather than me because I carry a gun, I'd be crazy to even want to "do business" with such a quack.

(Side thought: if we use the same tactics which we use on anti-gun establishments against those who aid and abet illegals, would the road be a tough one to hoe?)

peter nap · Oct 13, 2011

Hell, I don't even give them my real name or address. I'm sure not gonna tell them about my guns. All that stuff winds up in a central database.

ocholsteroc · Oct 13, 2011

"Is there a loaded weapon in the house?"

If they are going to ask this question why not ask more than just a gun? theres other dangerous weapons in the house.

electric plugs/sockets
knife
not proper child car seats
rottweiler in the house with small children
letting your kid cut the grass under the age of 10
etc....

PistolPackingMomma · Oct 13, 2011

We came across this question too in our pediatrician's office, along with questions asking about cleaning chemicals, pools, power tools, etc etc. My husband and I looked at each other and left that part of the form blank. It is none of their business and has nothing to do with their care of our children. If my son were ever in need of medical attention concerning an injury involving any of those things, in that instance I wouldn't be taking him to the pediatrician.

Blk97F150 · Oct 13, 2011

wylde007 said:
(OK, maybe not a stretch, but a mite presumptive.)

Perhaps. But they have a choice in asking that question... yet they do.

They have their choice... I have mine. If our pediatrician asks me that question.. I'll find another one. (especially at this moment... ours is a fairly new one after our previous one recently changed practices, so it wouldn't be that difficult to keep looking for a better match..... ).

Blk97F150 · Oct 13, 2011

Agent19 said:
It wasn't my dr. that questioned me about my NOYBA, it was our former/short term pediatrician, thery were dropped after that visit.

(emphasis mine)

Bingo! Apparently my comment wasn't all that presumptive after all... lol

2a4all · Oct 13, 2011

peter nap said:
Hell, I don't even give them my real name or address. I'm sure not gonna tell them about my guns. All that stuff winds up in a central database.

I'm never comfortable about giving out personal information, especially the kind of information typically asked for by MDs.

But, if you give a false name, how would you sue for malpractice? If you get prescriptions under this alias, isn't it a crime to fill them?

peter nap · Oct 13, 2011

2a4all said:
I'm never comfortable about giving out personal information, especially the kind of information typically asked for by MDs.

But, if you give a false name, how would you sue for malpractice? If you get prescriptions under this alias, isn't it a crime to fill them?

I really can't sue anyway because the few times I've gone, it's only diagnostic..except when my appendix burst, and I didn't have much say in that until I came to.

I don't take prescriptions so that's not an issue and my kids are both in their mid thirties so I don't have to worry about them.

My wife is another matter though.

All the medical records as I understand it, now go through a central database on line and are accessible for a number of entities. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't sell lists and data like DGIF was forced to do several years ago.

peter nap · Oct 13, 2011

NavyLCDR said:
Wonder what they would do if I told them, "There are no loaded guns in the house. The loaded gun is right here on my belt."

TFred · Oct 13, 2011

An unloaded handgun does not make a very good weapon. No effective range at all... A plain old hammer would work better.

TFred

BOOMcat12B · Oct 13, 2011

The simple answer to this is none of your business. A doctor has no need nor right to know anything beyond what is necessary to treat a patient.

Repeater · Oct 13, 2011

Court: Doctors have free speech rights ...

BOOMcat12B said:
The simple answer to this is none of your business. A doctor has no need nor right to know anything beyond what is necessary to treat a patient.

Oh really? Not so simple.

In Florida, which recently enacted a very powerful Preemption law, they also enacted something else that is relevant to us, the Firearm Owners' Privacy Act, which prohibits nosy physicians from prying into patients privacy on issues like gun possession.

Of course, busybody docs couldn't except that and sued. A court agreed:

Fla. Doctor Gun Law Blocked by Fed. Judge

A federal judge granted a preliminary injunction on Wednesday blocking Florida's doctor gun law, which effectively bans doctors from asking patients about gun use and firearm safety.

As exhibited by its official name (Firearm Owners' Privacy Act), legislators passed the law in a bid to protect gun-owning patients from what they believe to be an invasion of privacy.

The court disagreed, finding the law to be an invasion of doctors' and patients' right to free speech.

And here:

Judge blocks Florida law gagging doctors' gun talk

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke granted a preliminary injunction preventing the state and Governor Rick Scott, a Tea Party-backed Republican and former healthcare executive, from enforcing the Firearm Owners' Privacy Act with immediate effect.

The law took effect in June and was believed to be the first of its kind in the country. Florida has some of the most liberal firearms laws anywhere in the United States and vigorously protects private gun ownership.

With all but a few exceptions, the Florida law barred doctors from questioning their patients about guns in their homes or from having discussions with them about firearms safety.

Gun rights supporters had argued that such questioning from doctors violated their right to privacy.

But in her written argument granting the injunction, Cooke reasoned that the law also "chilled" free speech.

"This case concerns one of our Constitution's most precious rights -- the freedom of speech," she said.

"The law curtails practitioners' ability to inquire about whether patients own firearms and burdens their ability to deliver a firearm safety message to patients," Cooke said.

In her ruling, Cooke noted those groups published practice guidelines and policy statements recommending that doctors routinely provide counseling and guidance on the prevention of injuries, including automotive safety and firearms safety.

"Information regarding firearm ownership is not sacrosanct," Cooke wrote in her ruling.

Obvious judicial activism, possibly a product of so-called forum-shopping. By her "reasoning," an employers would have a free speech right to ask any applicant of an arrest record.

Pediatricians survey - "Is there a loaded weapon in the house?"

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