The largest 2a threat in MO

GUN OWNERS

Yes, you read that correct.

<snipped better thought out rant>

Ladies and Gents, I am weary. I swear I try and over look so much of the crap but I am one intolerant SOB and I keep watching the LIES and MORONIC rants and it just does not make sense.

Beyond running your mouth on a few internet forums, WTF have you done for MO gun rights?

2012 has me rapidly approaching $5k.

Considering the rumble of the grumble, that coin is rapidly becoming better spent.

If a **** pot of folks don't forget the latest and greatest sitcom or reality ******** and start doing something beyond bitching on various forums, its all good and time to invest that same coin in a far more selfish manner.

Less than 5% of gun owners bother to give a single dollar or more than 10 minutes to the cause of gun rights. You are on effn OCDO, not only are you the sheepDOG, you are the BLACKSHEEPDOG, the one the others won't even drink from the same bowl as you, shall you step up, or do you want to just sit and whine about being the outcast extremist again for 2012?

Say what you want, but answers via PM or email only, /rant off

I am Rich Lofftus and not only will I stand for your right to agree with me, I stand for your right to oppose me, but I think I am spending next year sitting on my ass, because standing up cost money and only a few lifted their asses from the chair in 2012.

Thats the 1st problem,spending 5k of your money while NRA keeps theres!!!!!!!!!!! Next you live in St.PETERS and you walk around with your cowboy boots and videotape always going ,Provoking a Officer to stop you about OC so you can youtube it or talk here about it,Trust me one day one of these superstar freaks who walk around with gun and video will get more then a 10 minute ordeal,I see this going much beyond that,I seea rookie cop or a old veteran tired of the **** or not informed coming unglued on ones ass one day or even shooting one of you fools for walking up on them with a camera and a gun,Well then you can kiss CCW,OC and other 2A so called right you bitch about good bye when it happens!!!!!!!!

I hear ya man. I hear ya ... :banghead:

"WE" are a collective of 2A and OC advocates (LMTD) myself and un-named others who as LMTD said worked our tails off for the past year to get what we can in the legilslature.

This has been like another full time job, and it is not a money maker. We have and are working very hard. For those who simply post here and do nothing else.... enjoy the show, mouth off... what ever.

We do not post everything we've done, we do not post what we are doing, nor do we post what we will do next.

This is a "public" forum. to post everything here would be "stupid", we are not the former, we are 2A activists working our tails off.

That's the way it is...

Be part of the solution, not a complainer... there are a lot of them.

Personally, I believe that if you are truly committed to any cause, you don't then turn around and complain about others, that you perceive to be, not committed or as committed.
Personally, I believe that attempting to "shame" folks into participating in any endeavor demonstrates a lack leadership.
Personally, I believe being critical of folks exercising their 1st amendment right who aren't as involved as you portray yourself to be involved in the activist activities of 2nd amendment rights is a bit jacked up.
Personally, I believe that boasting about the personal cost of what a free will decision brings you is nothing less than arrogance extraordinaire...humility is a beautiful thing.
Finally, I've always gotten a good chuckle out of folks who place so much importance on their own endeavors so as to forget that there "are" countless people as, or more, involved than yourself...but then getting beyond the length of one's own arm can be quite the challenge for some.

Personally...just some of the little things that I believe...

lincomores said:

Finally, I've always gotten a good chuckle out of folks who place so much importance on their own endeavors so as to forget that there "are" countless people as, or more, involved than yourself...but then getting beyond the length of one's own arm can be quite the challenge for some.

Personally...just some of the little things that I believe...

Click to expand...

LOL, that last line is COMICAL. When ever you muster the courage, let me know and I will buy you a cup of coffee and you can tell me all about this "countless" people because they are indeed countless sir, one can not count those whom do not exist.

Where were you when others(like myself) were trying to do something for OC. When I was trying to get people to help establish a legal fund for MO, your response was a rather colorful disparagement of people in MO and a statement that "you can't get people off their A**es to come to a free event let alone contribute". Did you offer any help? No. You instead hint that something big is in the works concerning you and "un-named others" and how I should wait for the call to arms for something big. In other words, you didn't seem to be interested any doing anything that your or your little cabal didn't start.

I believe you when you say you are an intolerant SOB. My question would be, is that with everyone(like the pols you seem to enjoy courting) or just the average everyday joes found on this forum? If it is indeed everyone, then I would wager you have wasted that 5k you referenced, because you have probably come off just as much a wanna be power broker to them, as you have here.


I do give you credit for writing the wording of SB680, but you really need to get over yourself there. Every pre-emption bill that has come before the House and Senate was written by someone. You wrote a piece of legislation, you didn't hammer out the stone tablets and hand them to Moses, let it go.

You and "We" should also remember, that just as you have not posted all you have done, neither has others who have worked to protect the 2A and OC rights posted what they have done. I do applaud the work you and the others have done and are doing, you need to realize you are not the only ones doing something. That is unless you enjoy feeling like it's just you against the system, if that helps you create some mythos around you and your friends, go for it.

SavageOne said:

Where were you when others(like myself) were trying to do something for OC. When I was trying to get people to help establish a legal fund for MO, your response was a rather colorful disparagement of people in MO and a statement that "you can't get people off their A**es to come to a free event let alone contribute". Did you offer any help? No. You instead hint that something big is in the works concerning you and "un-named others" and how I should wait for the call to arms for something big. In other words, you didn't seem to be interested any doing anything that your or your little cabal didn't start.
.

Click to expand...

Sir, you are simply agreeing with my point, folks don't get off their asses.

Now you have me at some what of a disadvantage in this discussion as I do not recall the effort you are speaking about where you tried to organize folks. I have been a part of three that fell apart in the last four years. If you are talking specifically about a thread dedicated to a legal defense fund, I have no doubt I spoke as you have stated and I stand by that 100%. How is the funding doing so far sir?

My efforts seem to be different than yous. I seek to change the laws so as to make OC legal, not secure funding for those who violate the laws. I understand that path COULD lead to a change in the law, but since OC in MO has indeed already been to the state supreme court and failed, I am not optimistic about such an effort.

And sir, all due respect "your little cabal" it ain't mine, it is just a group of folks who got off their butts and did something.

As far as the rest of the blathering goes, take a close look at what is happening this year, evaluate it as you see fit and if you seek further opinion from me, feel free to utilize the PM function.

Credit/blame... credit/blame...

I take none and I have done my small part working with a "team".

It's not about me, it's not about you, it's about OC and 2A rights.

A lot of boasting here.....

I won't say what I've done, what I'm doing for hours every day as part of an effort of many...

Just a small contribution to the effort is needed by all.

Just keep on going at it, I like to watch.

mspgunner said:

A lot of boasting here.....

Click to expand...

It ain't boasting, it is bitching.

It is a boat in the middle of the lake and no matter how fast folks bail, others paddle by and throw more water into the boat.

LMTD said:

It ain't boasting, it is bitching.

It is a boat in the middle of the lake and no matter how fast folks bail, others paddle by and throw more water into the boat.

Click to expand...

Hummmm.... maybe it's just a spray from a passing speed boat, it just evaporates if ignored!

You, I and the others have worked our rear ends off on pro-OC "stuff"... If anyone else cares to invest the time and efforts, more power too them, we sure can use all the help and support we can get.
I want this, I want that (preemption/Constitutional carry)...... WTF, who cares, go for it (and good luck), it's a free State! They may learn how difficult the process is to get anything out of Jefferson City.

mspgunner said:

Credit/blame... credit/blame...

I take none and I have done my small part working with a "team".

It's not about me, it's not about you, it's about OC and 2A rights.

A lot of boasting here.....

I won't say what I've done, what I'm doing for hours every day as part of an effort of many...

Just a small contribution to the effort is needed by all.

Just keep on going at it, I like to watch.

Click to expand...

I like your statement. And this really is my point.

If a free-will decision is made to commit to a cause, then what anyone else does, or doesn't do, is of no consequence.
When someone feels the need to broadcast what their personal sacrifice or investment is, in any given cause, simply deteriorates the quality of the commitment, in my opinion.
I guess I look at humility differently than others...I know that I admire and value it more than what a self centered individual offers.
I guess I'll never understand the mindset that makes the personal, individual choice and commitment to be a part of something and then call out others who don't measure up to what you think they should.


Anyone can take this any way you wish and make it out to be whatever you want.
It isn't meant to be a slam, but rather more of a point of observation.
And, it is just my personal observation.
I've told LMTD several times that "activism" isn't my gig. I applaud those who sacrifice their talent and treasure to what they deem worthy.

I have never considered bearing arms as an "exercise" of my 2nd Amendment right.
I full well understand the cost of freedom.
I'm and Oath taker...it was for life.
I don't "exercise" any right...I simply "live" my freedom and my liberties.
Every person who carries a firearm, concealed/open carry is a part of the cause and has contributed much.

The countless are among those all across this Country who contribute to cause of our Liberties and Freedoms.
What goes on in other States does have an effect elsewhere.

To respond in such a matter so as to say that an opinion, contrary to your own, is simply "bitching" really says more about the person who thinks and says that than the person holding another opinion.

LMTD said:

LOL, that last line is COMICAL. When ever you muster the courage, let me know and I will buy you a cup of coffee and you can tell me all about this "countless" people because they are indeed countless sir, one can not count those whom do not exist.

Click to expand...

Courage to do what? "Meet you?"
It has nothing to do with "courage" or the lack thereof.
If I'm being honest, and I always am...I simply have no desire.

lincomores said:

I guess I'll never understand the mindset that makes the personal, individual choice and commitment to be a part of something and then call out others who don't measure up to what you think they should.

To respond in such a matter so as to say that an opinion, contrary to your own, is simply "bitching" really says more about the person who thinks and says that than the person holding another opinion.

Click to expand...

Understanding that I know who I am speaking to, as usual you are talking about things you are not involved in simply because of your distaste for me. Thats ok, but it also renders your opinion worth nothing because you are not speaking for a position, simply a clueless position all the way around.

Since that is exactly the case, I was clearly not speaking to or about you at any level, you are not even involved other than hanging out looking for yet another chance to run your mouth about me, there will be more and you will stay and ultimately so what, you do nothing anyway.

You haven't even bothered discussing things around here, but I know you are indeed reading along. I would wager you have let Chuck know of your position in a polite and respectful manner.

I was talking neither to you or about you, you simply do not count and add nor subtract from the cause. Your permission seeking style you may say is one who is not trying to be an activist or advocate, I offer sir, it is indeed the actions of the sheeple, nothing more and nothing less. You can continue to ask permission and I will continue to fuss and fight for your right not to have to do so and that is just how it will be.

LMTD said:

Understanding that I know who I am speaking to, as usual you are talking about things you are not involved in simply because of your distaste for me. Thats ok, but it also renders your opinion worth nothing because you are not speaking for a position, simply a clueless position all the way around.

Click to expand...

It was quite clear who you were speaking to...those who have not invested like you have.
You couldn't be further from the truth as to why I'm not involved in your group.
You would like to believe that it is because of you, but I would like to clear that up...it isn't...not that I owe any explanation.
It is simply because I am not into the types of activities that you all are in to.
My life encompasses time with work, marriage, and grandchildren. I do not desire to schedule my time around a cause other than that.
As to you...I do not have any desire to take time out of my life to meet with you or get to know you. Your first impression was quite enough. If I'm wrong about you, in the end, so be it...but I've lived on the edge by gut feelings many times without regret. I'm sure you're a decent enough fellow. But that isn't why I posted.
To tell me that I'm speaking from a clueless position, and that my opinion is worth nothing only affirms my point. You have a problem with folks who don't measure up to your standards and dismiss them as useless.

LMTD said:

Since that is exactly the case, I was clearly not speaking to or about you at any level, you are not even involved other than hanging out looking for yet another chance to run your mouth about me, there will be more and you will stay and ultimately so what, you do nothing anyway.

Click to expand...

But it isn't even remotely the case, in reality...only in your mind. I understood that you were speaking to anyone who hasn't sacrificed as you present yourself, and others, to be sacrificing. I wasn't the only respondent who interpreted your OP that way.
Listen to you...folks who have an opposing perspective from you are "clueless, have no valid opinion, do nothings, bitches, running at the mouth"...
My post was a response about the "position you presented"...if you do not possess the ability to separate the premise then you either need to slow down and actually think about the context or grow some thicker skin, because it isn't about YOU personally...I made it clear that it was about a "mindset." However, I can't help it if the shoe fits.

LMTD said:

You haven't even bothered discussing things around here, but I know you are indeed reading along. I would wager you have let Chuck know of your position in a polite and respectful manner.

Click to expand...

Isn't how I choose to utilize this website and this forum my business? Do you think that this is the only forum I have bookmarked?
I utilize forums for resource...information.
I find some information here very useful.
And, as long as I abide by the rules, am I not free to participate as I please? But you will have none of that, will you? Why? Because you seem to enjoy judging folks by your standards. But my life, my friend, is not up for your judgment. I'm a free man and I'm not bound by your SOP.

LMTD said:

I was talking neither to you or about you...

Click to expand...

Very good then...I find comfort in understanding that there are now (2) of us who understood that all along.
Welcome aboard!

LMTD said:

you simply do not count and add nor subtract from the cause.

Click to expand...

According to "you." I'm thankful life isn't according to you.

LMTD said:

Your permission seeking style you may say is one who is not trying to be an activist or advocate, I offer sir, it is indeed the actions of the sheeple, nothing more and nothing less. You can continue to ask permission and I will continue to fuss and fight for your right not to have to do so and that is just how it will be.

Click to expand...

I'm no sheeple by any stretch...but for some reason this notion helps you...it somehow gives you validity in your personal judgment of others...I don't necessarily understand it, but I do recognize it.
If it makes you feel better to belittle, and dismiss other human beings in such a manner...I'm happy for you because the journey of getting to the place where we actually judge ourselves honestly, starts with how we view others.
My hope is that one day you will mature a bit in your mind and heart and begin to see past the length of your own arm...I mean that sincerely.

Concluding, I appreciate whatever work any of you do towards positive legislative actions which aid in securing our natural born rights and privileges.
As I said, I'm a free man with inalienable rights.
I simply live my liberty and experience my freedoms on a daily basis...I feel no need to "exercise them"...I'm already fit.

Best regards to all.

lincomores said:

It was quite clear who you were speaking to...

But it isn't even remotely the case, in reality...only in your mind. I understood that you were speaking to anyone who hasn't sacrificed as you present yourself, and others, to be sacrificing. I wasn't the only respondent who interpreted your OP that way.

Listen to you...folks who have an opposing perspective from you are "clueless, have no valid opinion, do nothings, bitches, running at the mouth"...
My post was a response about the "position you presented"...if you do not possess the ability to separate the premise then you either need to slow down and actually think about the context or grow some thicker skin, because it isn't about YOU personally...I made it clear that it was about a "mindset." However, I can't help it if the shoe fits.

Very good then...I find comfort in understanding that there are now (2) of us who understood that all along.
Welcome aboard!



According to "you." I'm thankful life isn't according to you.



I'm no sheeple by any stretch..

If it makes you feel better to belittle, and dismiss other human beings in such a manner...
Best regards to all.

Click to expand...

As clear as you think it might be, you are 100% incorrect on who I was speaking to, as I said, CLUELESS.

You make some false assumption, not unlike the one of "sheeple" being belittling, it is not, it is simply a statement about a mind set and you sir are indeed a sheeple. If for some reason you seek not to be one, you are the only one who can change that, but at no level is it an insult, just a permissive mind set, typically a very polite one as well.

Dismissing others is neither enjoyable or annoying, simply a task once must conduct after determining if they add anything to the goal sought, some do, some do not and then others actually take away from it. I was speaking to those who take away, you are not one of them, you simply do not add anything.

LMTD said:

As clear as you think it might be, you are 100% incorrect on who I was speaking to, as I said, CLUELESS.

Click to expand...

Then perhaps, as I suggested, you learn to address your audience more clearly.
You OP asked a question > you answered the question > you affirmed the answer.
GUN OWNERS...that is what you said. So unless that is code for specific individuals in "your" mind, I believe I have it down pretty clearly.

LMTD said:

You make some false assumption, not unlike the one of "sheeple" being belittling, it is not, it is simply a statement about a mind set and you sir are indeed a sheeple. If for some reason you seek not to be one, you are the only one who can change that, but at no level is it an insult, just a permissive mind set, typically a very polite one as well.

Click to expand...

"Permissive mind set?" lmao..."who" is asking "whom" for permission? It certainly isn't me.
But I do see you petitioning "The Government" for rights already granted. As I said, I simply live my liberty.
I didn't take an oath so that folks could open carry over coffee or a meal.
I served so that a free people could "live" free. I choose to live free. I'm sorry that your inability to comprehend that causes you to classify people. Me thinks you've watched too many you tube videos, honestly.
btw, the context of "my" post was "mindset" as well...but an egocentric personality will take it personally as you did.

LMTD said:

Dismissing others is neither enjoyable or annoying, simply a task once must conduct after determining if they add anything to the goal sought, some do, some do not and then others actually take away from it. I was speaking to those who take away, you are not one of them, you simply do not add anything.

Click to expand...

Only by "your" definition of what contributing means...duh, that is my point.
And a personal commitment is just that...it has nothing to do with anyone else. True commitment doesn't hinge on another person's lack of...but that is exactly what you stated...you are going to consider spending your "coin" more selfishly because of your perception that others are not committed like you...brother...that is NO COMMITMENT at all, as it has no substance.

And you will never convince me that you don't "enjoy" belittling people...that is part of the mindset that I refer to and it is shared by more individuals than yourself, not necessarily referring to anyone here, as I've had no interaction with them.
I've run across your type time and time again.
But it is ok, my friend...I do understand.

So, I make a general statement about a "mindset."
You come on and attempt to reconstruct to make it about "you."
Then you attempt to school me on who is committed and contributing and who isn't.
Puleez... this isn't my first rodeo.

I gave and continue to give for the promotion of "ALL" constitutional and inalienable rights, liberties, and freedoms.
My contribution can't be measured in chump change...it is a heart thing.
I am as much a part of any worthwhile cause as the next.
The difference between me and you is...I don't need to spout off about it to make myself feel worthwhile.

lincomores said:

Then perhaps, as I suggested, you learn to address your audience more clearly.
You OP asked a question > you answered the question > you affirmed the answer.
GUN OWNERS...that is what you said. So unless that is code for specific individuals in "your" mind, I believe I have it down pretty clearly.



"Permissive mind set?" lmao..."who" is asking "whom" for permission? It certainly isn't me.
But I do see you petitioning "The Government" for rights already granted. As I said, I simply live my liberty.

Click to expand...

It is not uncommon for you to fail to see the intent of my words, it has happened a lot.

Your permissive mind set is exactly that and it triggered an effort to ban OC in your own community, even after winning you sought to seek permission from the police to hold a celebration of the win, sir all due respect, that is what happened and our main disagreement stemmed from my objection to you asking permission at which point you began referring to it as "inform" etc. Why would one need to inform the government of a private party? Because one is indeed a sheeple, nothing more and nothing less sir.

I most certainly am petitioning the government to change laws that infringe upon those rights you have and while you or I either one may feel those rights are not constitutional, the legislature and MO Supreme Court aka the governing bodies disagree with us. I would indeed petition the third branch to change it, but some how I do not foresee the Governor over riding the other two branches of state government here in MO. It might have happened long ago in the past, but not in the recent years, you are however welcome to give it a shot, perhaps your polite demeanor will make it happen.

lincomores said:

My contribution can't be measured in chump change...it is a heart thing.
I am as much a part of any worthwhile cause as the next.
The difference between me and you is...I don't need to spout off about it to make myself feel worthwhile.

Click to expand...

Your contributions outside of OCDO may or may not be of value beyond when you served, that sir was indeed the ultimate commitment.

Your contributions here at OCDO are nothing but trolling myself. For someone so interested in defining they are not interested in me, good science requires evidence and the only evidence that exist is you posting on threads consistently seeking to argue with me, you are a forum troll, nothing more. I in fact do not believe since our disagreement over Troy, you have EVER posted on a thread I was not involved in. It is practically the only reason one could figure you visit here.

Now run along and enjoy your weekend, some of us are actually trying to do something about the infringements, you can go back to watching, but you won't, you lack what it takes.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/the-enemy-within <====Part one

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/the-enemy-within-2 <=====Part two

Come back when you are done reading.

Interesting poem, I am not taking credit, just read it many years ago, it still holds true today and that was the intent of this thread despite the efforts of others to derail it.

First they banned the full auto and I didn't speak up because I don't own a machine gun.
Then they banned concealed carry, and I did not speak up because I did not carry.
Then they banned the Saturday Night Specials, and I didn't speak up because I don't have cheap guns.
Then they banned the assault weapons, and I didn't speak up because I don't hunt with assault rifles.
Then they started to come for the sniper rifles, and I didn't speak up because I only hunt with a shotgun.
Then they came for my guns, and by that time there were no other gun owners left to help me fight.