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Justification defensive display of a firearm

I

I hate MD

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
18
Location
Ellicott City, Maryland, USA
What is Florida laws on Justification defensive display of a firearm, is it or should it be like Arizona's
Your input please, thanks

13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

B. This section does not apply to a person who:

1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.
 
F

FzSBLACKMAGICK

Campaign Veteran
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Mar 8, 2008
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Palm Bay, Florida, USA
To the best of my knowledge, Florida doesn't have any laws regarding it.

My understanding of the law is anything not in it...is by default...."permitted".

The reason we can't OC is because the law STATES we can't...not because it doesn't.
 
~*'Phoenix'*~

~*'Phoenix'*~

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
538
Location
Florida
I hate MD said:
What is Florida laws on Justification defensive display of a firearm, is it or should it be like Arizona's
Your input please, thanks

13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

B. This section does not apply to a person who:

1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.
Click to expand...

FL statutes have nothing like that: Displaying a firearm, if deadly force in self defense is not justified, may be cosidered "rude, angry, or threatening display of a deadly weapon." If deadly force is justified, the law makes no difference between drawing a gun, pointing it at your attacker w/ or w/o verbal warning and/or warning shot, and emptying the magazine into him. Generally the theory in FL is - if there's justification to make any use of your gun, fire until the threat is either fleeing, surrendering, or bleeding out on the ground. Is this ideal? Absolutely not, the laws should be changed, but your legal liability is prettymuch the same from the point the gun is in your hand 'til the magazine is empty and your barrel is hot...
 
J

j4l

Regular Member
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Jan 6, 2011
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1,835
Location
fl
Another important way to look at this, if Im not mistaken-By you brandishing that sidearm, the law can spin in the other guy's favor, in that he can take your action to mean HE is under threat to his life.
Thus, making YOU the bad guy.

Keep the pistol holstered, unless/until you have to make use of it. Waving it around hoping to scare or intimidate a potential/percieved threat....just invites way to many versions of Murphy to pay you a visit.
 
R

rabeatz

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Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
1
Location
Orlando, FL
While everyone's input here may be helpful, ultimately what matters is what is written into law.

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 1, ch. 4532, 1897; GS 3272; RGS 5105; CGL 7207; s. 5, ch. 69-306; s. 743, ch. 71-136; s. 2, ch. 76-165; s. 174, ch. 91-224.
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http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/790.10

The statute doesn't specifically state what 'necessary self defense' is, (essentially what the Arizona statute is doing - defining it) which would lead me to believe that it would ultimately only apply to being able to use it. Which is chapter 776 of the statutes, JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE. Hopefully you're familiar with it if you're carrying.

My suggestion would be not to touch it, imply you have it, let the imprint show, etc, in any sense, unless you have legal justification in pulling the trigger.
 
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B

brboyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Richard Duemmling said:
While everyone's input here may be helpful, ultimately what matters is what is written into law.


http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/790.10

The statute doesn't specifically state what 'necessary self defense' is, (essentially what the Arizona statute is doing - defining it) which would lead me to believe that it would ultimately only apply to being able to use it. Which is chapter 776 of the statutes, JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE. Hopefully you're familiar with it if you're carrying.

My suggestion would be not to touch it, imply you have it, let the imprint show, etc, in any sense, unless you have legal justification in pulling the trigger.
Click to expand...

You can 'use' it without firing it. Firing it is Deadly Force always. (As a matter of law) So you have to follow the use of force laws that permit the use of deadly force.

In a non-deadly force situation, based on the totality of the circumstances, referring to it, threatening to 'use' it, or pulling it out of the holster, or pointing it at someone can certainly be lawful, but will that will depend on the facts presented to a finder of fact (jury or judge) - if LEO makes an arrest and/or the SA files charges.
 
~*'Phoenix'*~

~*'Phoenix'*~

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Messages
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Location
Florida
brboyer said:
You can 'use' it without firing it. Firing it is Deadly Force always. (As a matter of law) So you have to follow the use of force laws that permit the use of deadly force.

In a non-deadly force situation, based on the totality of the circumstances, referring to it, threatening to 'use' it, or pulling it out of the holster, or pointing it at someone can certainly be lawful, but will that will depend on the facts presented to a finder of fact (jury or judge) - if LEO makes an arrest and/or the SA files charges.
Click to expand...

Actually, pointing a gun at someone, even if it's unloaded, is "Deadly force," whether or not you shoot it it's still deadly force.
 
B

brboyer

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Messages
412
Location
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
~*'Phoenix'*~ said:
Actually, pointing a gun at someone, even if it's unloaded, is "Deadly force," whether or not you shoot it it's still deadly force.
Click to expand...

You are incorrect. It may be, depending on the circumstances - which ultimately will be decided by a finder of fact (Judge in a Bench Trial, or a Jury)

Only the discharge of a firearm has been held to be deadly force as a matter of law.
Click to expand...
Williams v. State, 727 So. 2d 1062 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 4th Dist. 1999

Also, as to an unloaded weapon...
Deadly force occurs where the natural, probable and foreseeable consequences of the defendant's acts are death.
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An unloaded firearm does not meet this definition.

However, pointing an unloaded firearm as someone may give that person fear of death or great bodily injury, even if the act itself is not, by law, Deadly Force.
 
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SGB

SGB

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Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
50
Location
Tallahassee, Florida, USA
brboyer said:
You can 'use' it without firing it. Firing it is Deadly Force always. (As a matter of law) So you have to follow the use of force laws that permit the use of deadly force.

In a non-deadly force situation, based on the totality of the circumstances, referring to it, threatening to 'use' it, or pulling it out of the holster, or pointing it at someone can certainly be lawful, but will that will depend on the facts presented to a finder of fact (jury or judge) - if LEO makes an arrest and/or the SA files charges.
Click to expand...

brboyer has hit it on the head. This is why it's important to understand the proper use of escalation of force and to get training in how to put it into practice.
 
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