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shelter-in-place???

ps1mhd

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
261
Location
sparta ky
What are the laws if any in Ohio for police issuing a shelter-in-place order?
Can police just order you off the street or your porch?
Who makes that call patrol officer, chief, mayor?
There was a active shooter last night and people in the area couldn't go home or leave their homes.


Mike D
 

color of law

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Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
What are the laws if any in Ohio for police issuing a shelter-in-place order?
Can police just order you off the street or your porch?
Who makes that call patrol officer, chief, mayor?
There was a active shooter last night and people in the area couldn't go home or leave their homes.


Mike D
You must have been reading my mind.

Early this morning I did a open records request about this very question. Now, I can tell you Ohio does have a shelter in place for K-12 (schools) only.

Here is my request, the answer and reply.
This is an Open Record Request per Ohio Revised Code 149.43.
This request is in regards to the June 9/10, 2016 Deerfield Township shooting involving a deputy sheriff.
According to many news reports a “shelter in place order” was issued by the sheriff.
Therefore, please provide a copy of that order,“shelter in place order”. An E-mail reply with a PDF copy attached is acceptable.
If no such order was issued please so state.
Your prompt reply would be appreciated.
Thank you.
In regards to your email, there is no paper order available. This was done verbally.
I hope this helps.
Barry
Then what statutory authority did the sheriff rely on to issue such verbal order?
Thanks for your reply.

At this point I'm waiting for a response.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
home land security: http://www.nationalterroralert.com/shelterinplace/ with reference to environmentally released biologics/chemicals/radiological agents

one site mentioned terrorist attacks and natural disasters...http://www.ussecurityassociates.com...uments/resource-guide-sk-shelter-in-place.pdf

several sites were in a 'rose by any other name is still martial law' mentality...

so a further query...if the sheriff is the highest elected peace officer in every county of the nation are they the only entity who can call for a citizen's shelter in place action ?

ipse
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
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Messages
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
home land security: http://www.nationalterroralert.com/shelterinplace/ with reference to environmentally released biologics/chemicals/radiological agents

one site mentioned terrorist attacks and natural disasters...http://www.ussecurityassociates.com...uments/resource-guide-sk-shelter-in-place.pdf

several sites were in a 'rose by any other name is still martial law' mentality...

so a further query...if the sheriff is the highest elected peace officer in every county of the nation are they the only entity who can call for a citizen's shelter in place action ?

ipse
Government websites end in .gov, not .com.
NationalTerrorAlert.com is a private homeland security blog and not affiliated with any government agency.
http://www.nationalterroralert.com/about-us/
 

Animalou812

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
66
Location
Erlanger, Kentucky
home land security: http://www.nationalterroralert.com/shelterinplace/ with reference to environmentally released biologics/chemicals/radiological agents

one site mentioned terrorist attacks and natural disasters...http://www.ussecurityassociates.com...uments/resource-guide-sk-shelter-in-place.pdf

several sites were in a 'rose by any other name is still martial law' mentality...

so a further query...if the sheriff is the highest elected peace officer in every county of the nation are they the only entity who can call for a citizen's shelter in place action ?

ipse





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Animalou812

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
66
Location
Erlanger, Kentucky
A local radio host (who is a lawyer) talked about this today on 55krc. He said a shelter in place or is simply an advisory to the public. He said you can still travel as you please.


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color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
A local radio host (who is a lawyer) talked about this today on 55krc. He said a shelter in place or is simply an advisory to the public. He said you can still travel as you please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Typical BS attorney response. I bet he didn't address the term "order."
Therefore, please provide a copy of that order,“shelter in place order”.
Black's Law Dictionary - Order. A mandate; precept; command or direction authoritatively given.

The sheriff gave an ORDER. The sheriff did not request persons to shelter in place. The term order is used to deceive the public.

Words are important. I despise government officials that use words to deceive the public.
 

Animalou812

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
66
Location
Erlanger, Kentucky
On the local news they interviewed local people that lived in that area. People were giving their accounts of running into the police unaware of "the order". All the people said the cops just told them to be careful and went on their way.


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davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I buried the wifey , just to be extra-safe .... who listens to these commands that tread on my rights to travel?
 
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Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
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18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Typical BS attorney response. I bet he didn't address the term "order." Black's Law Dictionary - Order. A mandate; precept; command or direction authoritatively given.

The sheriff gave an ORDER. The sheriff did not request persons to shelter in place. The term order is used to deceive the public.

Words are important. I despise government officials that use words to deceive the public.

Agreed.

Congress doesn't read the laws before it passes them; why earth would one expect a sheriff to consult his statutory authority before spouting "orders"?

Separately, some years ago I read an interesting explanation of why government violates rights: rights are not necessary to what government wants to do. The more I thought about it, the more sweeping that comment seemed. Think about it: rights are an impediment to whatever a government agent wants to do. From a different angle, imagine giving a group of people a monopoly on force, and layers of protection against removal from office, and then expecting them to actually observe restrictions on their actions. Yeah, suuuuuure. Like that is gonna work.
 
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color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Anybody can give "orders". Accepting and obeying those orders is another matter. You can obey every "order" given to you by every person you have contact with, or you can chose to live your life freely. It is your choice. I have a few "orders" for some members here. I hope they will be obeyed, but somehow expect them to be ignored. I suspect that many here are "ordered" around almost every day, by their wives, their children, and everybody else they deal with. Some people like "orders". It makes life much more simple when somebody makes all of your decisions for you. Others would rather make their own decisions. It is called liberty. I once had a friend call me. He was in the hospital and wanted to leave and wanted to know what to do. I told him that if he really wanted to leave, get up, put your pants on and start walking. He asked, "Can I do that"? I said that I wasn't sure if he could or not, it didn't sound like he could. Not because he wasn't allowed to, it just seemed that he was incapable of actually doing it. He said that "they" told him that he "couldn't" leave. I told him to be outside in 15 mins. and I'd be there to pick him up. When I showed up he said that "they" "made him sign some papers" and I asked how they had "made" him do it. He said they told him he had to and he did it. SMH Some of us have allowed ourselves to be pushed around and now are incapable of asserting ourselves. We are so compliant that we have lost sovereignty over our own lives.
You are taut from the day you are born to be compliant. My mother always said I was bucking orders coming out of her womb.
 
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Brian D.

Regular Member
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Jul 27, 2007
Messages
937
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
My take as a fire/EMS worker in Ohio is that it's in large part the media that has ratcheted up the terminology in these matters from "advisory" to "order". Some emergency service spokespersons probably don't care enough to correct the reporters, and a few may even invoke the O word on their own.
 

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
937
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA

Yes, and if we allow it to go on long enough, it will be written into law in a very short time. The "correction" needs to be made loudly and often.

For what it's worth, gutshot, with others here on the job I've helped rein in overzealous coworkers and bosses a few times with regards to how much authority we (don't) have in various situations. Also, any time it seems needed, there will be a few of us who step-by-step question new policies that don't read as constitutional/civil rights-friendly, if you will. Overall I'd say our efforts have had a positive impact through the years. Hopefully there are a few check valves like us in all emergency service agencies, but sometimes it doesn't seem that way.
 
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solus

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Larry L. Sims of the Warren County Sheriff Dept. made it clear that it was a verbal "ORDER." News media did not choose that term.

so, CoL...what does that specifically mean to JQPublic...verbal order...if citizens fail to heed said order are they now 'failing to obey a police order' and citable (sp)?

btw, thanks for pursuing this nuance...

ipse

added...secondary concept...and the good citizen is OC'g??
 
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color of law

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That is "worth" a lot and knowing you, I am sure that it is true. Things like this creep very quickly from being just one word casually written in policy to statute violation with jail time and fine. Once they become ingrained in people's minds it is difficult to overcome, or even explain. Funny that, when left on its own, it only seems to move in one direction. If it were truly accidental or unconscious, it seems that it would be random and move in both directions, both more restrictive and less restrictive, but government inertial is unidirectional, always seeking more power and more authority. It is just like water always running downhill
And into the gutter.....
 

color of law

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Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
so, CoL...what does that specifically mean to JQPublic...verbal order...if citizens fail to heed said order are they now 'failing to obey a police order' and citable (sp)?

btw, thanks for pursuing this nuance...

ipse

added...secondary concept...and the good citizen is OC'g??
It means that JQPublic was intentionally deceived. The sheriff breached his oath of office. The sheriff issued an unlawful order.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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12,452
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White Oak Plantation
Tread lightly around a cop who gives a order, he is likely to use force to gain compliance. Be comforted in the knowledge that you, or your survivors, will receive a tax payer backed check if the cop was found to have gained compliance from a unlawful order.
 
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