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Stopped by LEO's on 8th ave in Huntington

JeffTL

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
19
Location
huntington, wv
First let me state that overall the officers i encountered on my way to work this morning were overall professional. they were not aggressive or rude per se.
i stopped at speedway for my coffee and walked right past the driver side window (which was open) of a police cruiser while OC. So that put my pistol right in LEO's eye level. He milled around the parking lot while i was inside and seemed to be waiting for me to be a problem. i paid for my coffee, got in my truck and headed on down the road. He followed me, and since I have out of state plates on my truck he pulled me over on 8th ave. I shut off my vehicle and remained buckled in, hands on the wheel. two more cruisers showed up. then i was ordered to place my hands out the window. i complied. An officer with a drawn weapon appeared by my passenger side window, glock drawn, but did not point it at anybody, he just watched me exit and watched my pistol, which was in open view on the seat. I was patted down, my spare mag, and little pocket knife were taken (temporarily) and then i was questioned a bit. I didnt really say anything except my name. and that i live here. When the shift commander stated that the right to open carry was only guaranteed to West Virginia citizens I knew I had them. All I said was

"really? can you tell me which law that is?" he says " wait here"
Comes back with a book from the attorney generals office: " it says here that according to the AG.... (i know you have all read that snippet on the site before so i wont beat a dead horse)
i reply "well sir, that is the AG's opinion, but that is not a law, he is the chief attorney, but the legislature makes the laws, and they have said nothing of the sort."
From there he sort of relaxed a bit, and then told me i need to update my tags since ive been in WV for more than 6 months. i thanked him for setting me straight on my tags and they let me go. at the next stop light, the original officer who stopped me shouts through his window, "I like your SIG man!"
End of encounter.

Just thought Id share and hear any thoughts from the forum about what could be done better, worse. Gotta get back to work. OUT
 

ComradeV

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
428
Location
Maple Hill, North Carolina, USA
It's very unfortunate that they illegally stopped your vehicle with no RAS that a crime was afoot.

Though, given the the information they have it's not surprising they would do such a thing. Further action should be taken to help visitors to WV feel less uneasy about their encounters with LEOs of the state.
 

JeffTL

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
19
Location
huntington, wv
It's very unfortunate that they illegally stopped your vehicle with no RAS that a crime was afoot.

Though, given the the information they have it's not surprising they would do such a thing. Further action should be taken to help visitors to WV feel less uneasy about their encounters with LEOs of the state.

They actually said that because i was open carrying, and my truck has out of state plates, that they had suspicion of me breaking the law. however, the "law" they thought i was breaking was just the AG's opinion and not actually a law. I look at it as a minor inconvenience where i was able to educate the Police a bit without it getting out of control. Although technically i never consented to search, and they did go in my truck and inspect my weapon. but i do agree that visitors should here about this things and see that it is not always the end of the world when the police stop you in WV.
 

eamelhorn

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
143
Location
ripley wv
Love this, good for all OC's, and it helped regulate the HPD that people who OC are more than likely the ones they dont have to worry about. But they were cool in not citing you for your tags and your drivers they did have you there. I think its 30 days to cahnge your adress but not sure it may be a bit longer.
 

carsontech

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
529
Location
Anderson, SC
JeffTL, my family travels to WV and open carries while visiting. We never had any trouble. We have had several occasions in Martinsburg where LEOs have seen us open carrying and definitely saw our license plate was a SC plate, and nothing happened.

It sounds like those officers was trying to intimidate you, harass you, or they think the AG makes the laws.

It would help the people that visit WV from out of state if you could you make sure the department those LEOs work for is educated about the legality of non-residents open carrying.

Call the LEOs supervisors, make a paper trail of your complaint, etc...

There may be better ways to get the department educated. Maybe some other can chime in with there experience in this area.

What happened to you was VERY wrong. I wouldn't let the LEOs or there department get away with it no matter how professional they were. You weren't doing anything illegal and they had NO RAS to stop you.

They stopped you without RAS and it sounds like they illegally searched your vehicle. Please don't let this go.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
carsontech said:
It sounds like those officers was trying to intimidate you, harass you, or they think the AG makes the laws.
... Call the LEOs supervisors, make a paper trail of your complaint, etc...
... What happened to you was VERY wrong.
... They stopped you without RAS and it sounds like they illegally searched your vehicle. Please don't let this go.
What he said.

JeffTL said:
...the officers ... were overall professional.
... i was ordered to place my hands out the window.
... An officer with a drawn weapon appeared by my passenger side window
... I was patted down, my spare mag, and little pocket knife were taken (temporarily) and then i was questioned a bit.
Once you felt you weren't free to leave, you were under arrest.
I'd say that being pulled over w/ lights flashing satisfies that condition, let alone having an officer w/ a gun in hand right there. (Why'd he need to watch your pistol anyway? Is he one of those people who think that guns do things on their own?)
And why did they think they needed to take a spare magazine? What were you going to do, throw it at someone?

So they used a show of authority (when they had no legally-backed reason to even stop you),
the threat of deadly force,
committed illegal searches & seizures...
and since they were polite they convinced you that it was OK.
I think most people start with that idea, & gradually come to see how wrong it is, & that the police are manipulating them & infringing their rights.
If you're aware of it & submit that's one thing, but don't give in to their tricks just because you don't know any better.

JeffTL said:
They actually said that because i was open carrying, and my truck has out of state plates, that they had suspicion of me breaking the law.
... i never consented to search, and they did go in my truck and inspect my weapon.
Except that the peaceful exercise of a protected civil right is not & can never be a crime.
Plus they searched you & your car w/o RAS, consent, or a warrant.
Civil rights violations all around, under color of law & with unreasonable threat of deadly force.
And I'll bet that they ran the serial number on your pistol. Congrat's - you now have a crime gun.

If they force you to get out of your car, lock the doors (the windows are already rolled up, right?) & close the driver's door behind you.
Pocket the keys.
Makes it MUCH harder for them to justify a search. (DAMHIK)
Nothing in that car is in your reach, so can't be used to harm them.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
What he said.


Once you felt you weren't free to leave, you were under arrest.
I'd say that being pulled over w/ lights flashing satisfies that condition, let alone having an officer w/ a gun in hand right there. (Why'd he need to watch your pistol anyway? Is he one of those people who think that guns do things on their own?)
And why did they think they needed to take a spare magazine? What were you going to do, throw it at someone?

So they used a show of authority (when they had no legally-backed reason to even stop you),
the threat of deadly force,
committed illegal searches & seizures...
and since they were polite they convinced you that it was OK.
I think most people start with that idea, & gradually come to see how wrong it is, & that the police are manipulating them & infringing their rights.
If you're aware of it & submit that's one thing, but don't give in to their tricks just because you don't know any better.


Except that the peaceful exercise of a protected civil right is not & can never be a crime.
Plus they searched you & your car w/o RAS, consent, or a warrant.
Civil rights violations all around, under color of law & with unreasonable threat of deadly force.
And I'll bet that they ran the serial number on your pistol. Congrat's - you now have a crime gun.

If they force you to get out of your car, lock the doors (the windows are already rolled up, right?) & close the driver's door behind you.
Pocket the keys.
Makes it MUCH harder for them to justify a search. (DAMHIK)
Nothing in that car is in your reach, so can't be used to harm them.

Excellent post! I especially like the idea of locking your car when you get out. This had never occurred to me... though I have never had it happen to me either.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
Comes back with a book from the attorney generals office: " it says here that according to the AG.... (i know you have all read that snippet on the site before so i wont beat a dead horse)
i reply "well sir, that is the AG's opinion, but that is not a law, he is the chief attorney, but the legislature makes the laws, and they have said nothing of the sort."
From there he sort of relaxed a bit, and then told me i need to update my tags since ive been in WV for more than 6 months. i thanked him for setting me straight on my tags and they let me go. at the next stop light, the original officer who stopped me shouts through his window, "I like your SIG man!"
End of encounter.


You handled that well...

Apparently, when the AG published their warnings about how WV LEOs "interpret the law", he forgot to actually ASK the WV State Police how THEY interpret the law on OC. If he had taken the time to look at their freaking website, he would have found this statement:


Q. Is it lawful to carry weapons (e.g. rifles, shotguns, and pistols) in my vehicle when I travel in West Virginia?

A. Individuals who possess a valid concealed carry permit may carry a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle for purpose of self defense only. West Virginia permits anyone who can lawfully possess a handgun to carry an unconcealed handgun. If you choose to carry an unconcealed handgun in your vehicle and are stopped by a law-enforcement officer, you must understand that that the weapon will immediately attract the attention of the police officer. The presence of the weapon may lead to action by the officer to ensure his or her safety such as the drawing of his or her weapon, ordering you from the vehicle, and/or performing a pat-down search. Weapons intended for hunting must be unloaded and in a case when transported in a vehicle. It is strongly recommended that, if you do not have a valid concealed carry permit, while traveling in a vehicle, that all firearms be unloaded and cased in a location in the vehicle that is not readily accessible to any of the occupants. Any ammunition should be stored in a separate location from the firearm.

You may want to include this link with any correspondences to the offending LEA concerning this matter. This link is from the WVSP's own web site, and essentially proves that the WV AG is full of it...

http://www.statepolice.wv.gov/about/...isionFAQs.aspx
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
i drove into WV recently from VA on my way home in NC. at once i thought oh sh!t, i don't exactly know the law on open carry in WV. but ,then i called my good friend in Blacksburg and asked him what the laws were. we went over the non-residents thing but then he told me about there was no law that said such. ran into a few people there that didn't know anything about the laws
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
First let me state that overall the officers i encountered on my way to work this morning were overall professional. they were not aggressive or rude per se.
i stopped at speedway for my coffee and walked right past the driver side window (which was open) of a police cruiser while OC. So that put my pistol right in LEO's eye level. He milled around the parking lot while i was inside and seemed to be waiting for me to be a problem. i paid for my coffee, got in my truck and headed on down the road. He followed me, and since I have out of state plates on my truck he pulled me over on 8th ave. I shut off my vehicle and remained buckled in, hands on the wheel. two more cruisers showed up. then i was ordered to place my hands out the window. i complied. An officer with a drawn weapon appeared by my passenger side window, glock drawn, but did not point it at anybody, he just watched me exit and watched my pistol, which was in open view on the seat. I was patted down, my spare mag, and little pocket knife were taken (temporarily) and then i was questioned a bit. I didnt really say anything except my name. and that i live here. When the shift commander stated that the right to open carry was only guaranteed to West Virginia citizens I knew I had them. All I said was

"really? can you tell me which law that is?" he says " wait here"
Comes back with a book from the attorney generals office: " it says here that according to the AG.... (i know you have all read that snippet on the site before so i wont beat a dead horse)
i reply "well sir, that is the AG's opinion, but that is not a law, he is the chief attorney, but the legislature makes the laws, and they have said nothing of the sort."
From there he sort of relaxed a bit, and then told me i need to update my tags since ive been in WV for more than 6 months. i thanked him for setting me straight on my tags and they let me go. at the next stop light, the original officer who stopped me shouts through his window, "I like your SIG man!"
End of encounter.

Just thought Id share and hear any thoughts from the forum about what could be done better, worse. Gotta get back to work. OUT
The original officer seemed to not like your SIG earlier....
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
The original officer seemed to not like your SIG earlier....

Anyone else noticing a trend here in WV?

It seems that the majority of people who are getting hassled because of OC are carrying expensive, custom, high-quality firearms like Sigs, high-end 1911's and the like.

I think the LEOs are just jealous...
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP First let me state that overall the officers i encountered on my way to work this morning were overall professional.

Except for the various rights violations. No offense, but my definition of a professional cop includes knowing the law cold, and having a deep respect for rights rather than viewing them as impediments to playing cops-and-robbers. Thinking there might be a law against whatever the person is doing doesn't cut it with me. If the cop doesn't know, then there is no way he can know whether he has authority to involuntarily detain someone. If the cop doesn't know, he needs to find out before he goes seizing someone.

When a cop is polite during an adversarial encounter is the most important time to be on guard. Cops know they need you to talk and give them information to get them from reasonable suspicion to probable cause. They also know that if you shut up, their investigation is pretty much stopped right there. So, the smart ones are going to be very polite to get you to drop your guard.

The recording is lost in the mists of time, but some of us still remember the two cops who were oh-so polite and friendly when talking to an OCer, but back at the patrol car, one said to the other, "There has got to be something we can nail him for."
 
Last edited:

JeffTL

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
19
Location
huntington, wv
Two things have come to mind now that ive heard from the forum and had a few days to step back. one is just how quickly 3 police cruisers descended upon me even though i broke no laws. this encounter did not take very long, in fact i was not even late to work. the second is that although they violated my rights, how was i supposed to stop that. im out numbered 3 to 1, and while one cop is asking questions ( which largely went unanswered ) the other two were in my truck. frankly if they are going to enter my vehicle i can not stop them at the scene. I have however decided to file a report with the office of professional conduct. i dont expect much to come from that, but hopefully some of these officers get a little retraining on the laws and dont bother the next guy about his legally carried firearm. thanks to all for your opinions and insights. I will try to do better the next time. OC for life. OUT
 

zekester

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
664
Location
Uvalde, Texas
I have got to ask..

"he just watched me exit and watched my pistol, which was in open view on the seat."

You just walked past LEO...OC'ing....and now the firearm is on the seat?....Is the a concealed carry thing or something?

You also state that "the other two were in my truck"..so I guess they searched it?..Did you give them permission to do so?

Just curious
 
Last edited:

ickthus

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
32
Location
Fl , USA
My kids go to college at Marshall and live off campus. When i go visit them i have to open carry as my state and WV at that time did not reciprocate CCW. I got with Huntington and campus PD and talked about how to be legal. I was go to go OC and was told to stick it on the dash of my truck in plan sight or locked case for transport. Never a peep about me being out of state.
 

Shallnotbeinfringed

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
88
Location
Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA
In WV while in a vechical your self defence weapon must be in plain view unless you have a CCW.

Its not just while in a vehicle. Without a CPRL (Concealed Pistol/revolver Licence) your firearm must follow §61-7-2-10. Having it on the seat certainly qualifies, however, leaving it in its holster on your hip also qualifies. To me, excessive handling of your firearm increases the chance of a negligent discharge. Laying your firearm on the passenger seat isn't very wise. Hard braking, accelerating, and crashes could make your firearm a projectile in and of itself.

I say to each his own, but once my firearm is secured in its holster on my belt, it doesn't leave the holster. Heck, my carry gun doesn't leave the holster except for cleaning and range time. Its sitting in the holster by my bed right now.


§61-7-2. Definitions.

(10) "Concealed" means hidden from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition. A deadly weapon is concealed when it is carried on or about the person in such a manner that another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried.
 

eamelhorn

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
143
Location
ripley wv
The wonderful WV grey

Our great state has issue's within the laws,the AG's office and LE concerning OC. The AG's opinion of the guns laws do not match what the legistrators have said, and has put his own biaised opinion in his phamlet, such as, must be a state resident, and if OCing visiable from 3 sides. I know 2 people who are taking criminal justice classes right now, thier instructor uses the AG's opinion phamlet so to speak as teaching books. So now thier beliefe in the law is WRONG, as they were taught this is LAW. We have LEO who have been taught this also. I agree the seat or dash board is not the place to place a weapon. Also it is left up to the LEO to make a determination as, "WHAT IS THIS GUY UP TO" with that gun. The State Police (many of them) feel if its on your hip in a holster while in a car that it is concealed UNTIL you notify them you have a weapon, then once you tell them it has been revealed therefore it is now OPEN, this is not law but some troopers interpution of the law. But what if a city or county cop stops you, they can interput the law differently. Its all in how the LE decides what the law may or should be on that day. The State Police web page mentions guns "not configured for hunting, as being legal in a car. The WV DNR laws makes no distinction in an Open Carried gun being configured for hunting or not, it says no loaded guns period. Of course these statements are paraphrased. Now a legally carried weapon in a car a police officer cannot site you, but they can hold you for DNR if they want or twist the laws to fit the need of the moment to suit thier needs. Many OC'ers dont hunt, many do, I happen to hunt so all my imformation came from the hunting regs, untill I found this site. Any way you cut it OC'ing in a car is legal, also any way you cut it it is illegal. Its that wonderful grey area of WV gun laws. Dont take mine nor anyones word for anything, find out for yourself.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Also it is left up to the LEO to make a determination as, "WHAT IS THIS GUY UP TO" with that gun.

Do you have info to back this up? I know about Wheeling ongoing case... But if you have ANY case laws or even anecdotal evidence I'd like to hear it. It's a subject I'm very interested in.
 
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