A parking lot bill...

IMO, the parking lot bill should be at the top of the list for the legislative agenda.

I can not express how frustrated and angry I am this has not already passed. As it is, I am forced to be disarmed during my commute to and from work five days a week. An employer should not be able to force any of us from having a firearm secured in our personal vehicle and as a result be disarmed to and from work.

Do we know of anyone sponsoring this bill for the upcoming legislative session? I already spoke to congressmen and he claimed someone was already suppose to be sponsoring the bill. He of course did not know for sure who that was.

I agree 100%. My last two employers have prohibits firearms in personal vehicles on company property. Some folks say do it anyway. My problem is that a co-worker may see carrying if i stop on the way home from work and that could get back to my employer. I'd love to carry to and from work but with the economy the way it is I need my job more. I would support the parking lot bill again this year.

contrast that with one day this week where several of us at my place of work set up a bb gun range in our warehouse. Not our everyday work schedule I'll admit, what happened was one guy had just bought the bb gun and wanted to get it sighted so we pinned a couple of targets up and took turns firing and adjusting the scope until one of us (our manager actually) hit dead center bullseye, at which point we packed up and went home

I agree this situation sucks, and I don't like it either. HOWEVER, what I hate even MORE is a law-body making me allow something on my PRIVATE property that I don't agree with! I assume the boss also owns the parking lot, right? Imagine if you are the business owner, and your LIBERAL employee gets a law to force you to allow THEM to do something you don't like at work, maybe like hanging a pro-Jane Fonda poster in his work space, under freedom of speech. How would you like that? Let us be careful what law-making we promote that denies the rights of private property owners to set the standards for what does and does not go on on their OWN property. Otherwise, we are just hypocrites, like the libtards. Sometimes, holding onto freedom for all requires us to hold our noses and just deal with it. This proposal is NOT a conservative principle. Our founders would probably not agree with the proposal, IMHO.

Old Virginia Joe said:

I agree this situation sucks, and I don't like it either. HOWEVER, what I hate even MORE is a law-body making me allow something on my PRIVATE property that I don't agree with! I assume the boss also owns the parking lot, right? Imagine if you are the business owner, and your LIBERAL employee gets a law a force you to allow THEM to do something you don't like at work, maybe like hanging a pro-Jane Fonda poster in his work space, under freedom of speech. How would you like that? Let us be careful what law-making we promote that denies the rights of private property owners to set the standards for what does and does not go on on their OWN property. Otherwise, we are just hypocrites, like the libtards. Sometimes, holding onto freedom for all requires us to hold our noses and just deal with it. This proposal is NOT a conservative principle. Our founders would probably not agree with the proposal, IMHO.

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Very good points Joe and points I've made many times. The bill has to be written carefully to protect private property rights and not contribute to P4P.

The issue isn't forcing a business owner to allow something he doesn't want to...rather to allow someone to travel from home to work with his gun and be able to store it safely while at work.

The only way I'd support it is if the bill were written much like the school property statute, minus the permit clause.

thebigsd said:

I agree 100%. My last two employers have prohibits firearms in personal vehicles on company property. Some folks say do it anyway. My problem is that a co-worker may see carrying if i stop on the way home from work and that could get back to my employer. I'd love to carry to and from work but with the economy the way it is I need my job more. I would support the parking lot bill again this year.

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"My problem is that a co-worker may see carrying if i stop on the way home from work and that could get back to my employer."

Ahh, but that doesn't prove that you had the firearm in your car at work. I know where you're coming from and I use to worry about the same thing. So I checked with corporate security (not the rent-a-security types) at the last company where I worked (I'm retired) and they told me. "Hell, I'd bet 50% of the cars on these lots have guns in them". I would say he was exaggerating a bit but the point was well made and taken. They didn't seem to see a problem with it.

This is going to vary from place to place and I do see valid and good arguments on both sides of the issue. One could take a don't-ask-don't-tell approach and will be almost guaranteed to never have a problem.... unless his vehicle is broken in to and the gun is stolen. Or one could, if possible, just park off of company property and there won't be any problems. And how does this work when a company is leasing the property? Is the parking lot then considered part of company premises?


I don't see an easy answer to this one.

This bill needs to be properly worded, no permits required and apply to local & state government. Lets look at the states that have passed this legislation and craft a proposed bill that would take in all of our requirements and safeguards.

Southern Boy, While someone seeing my gun after work doesn't prove I had it there, it does give my company cause to ask to search my car. Of course I could refuse and then they could just fire me.

Peter, I like the way you put it and agree that the school type statute without the permit clause is the way to go.

Old Virginia Joe, I don't want to trample private property rights either. The thing is most of these places don't ban firearms on the property except for employees. In my last two jobs customers were allowed to carry in the store but I couldn't keep mine locked in my vehicle. That is the sillyness I want to get rid of.

My property rights too

While my vehicle maybe parked on my employers lot, the vehicle and what is in it is still my property, and should be off limits to them! Just because I work for someone doesn't give them the right to search my property, so make this an employee rights bill.

In New Mexico, where I have a sister, the law equates the interior of your vehicle with your home (WRT firearms at least, maybe more, IANAL). This might be the way to go to address the parking lot issue as well as the forced employer search aspect. It also clarifies the issue of who's property rights prevail inside one parties' private car on another parties' private lot.

The states with the strongest "parking lot gun laws" are Florida, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota and Oklahoma. The next list of states allow for more restrictions but at least still permit some sort of legal guns at work; Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Ohio, and Utah. (Ref; http://hrm-partners.com/hr-news/“bring-your-gun-to-work”-laws-their-effect-on-employers?&lang=en ) Also on the list but I don't know where they stand are Maine, Texas and Wisconsin.

actual incident

several years ago, while safety manager for a large aerospace company, the HR manager came to me 'extremely concerned' someone had a valid conceal carry permit and was overheard discussing firearms in the breakroom. HR was concerned this individual had a firearm in the parking lot...expressly against corp policy. (this caused me more than a bit of worry since i to have a ccw and had to teach a NRA pistol class that afternoon to the boy scounts so i had a gaggle of firearms in my personal vehicle which was parked in the company parking lot - on lunch break i quietly moved my vehicle out of the parking lot surrounding the building and parked on the public street)

i seriously tried to disuade the HR manager from her course of action which was to bring the individual up to discuss this issue w/the VP after she and the unarmed rent a cop personally searched the individual's vehicle for a firearm. when i discerned she was 'hell bent' on her quest i went to the EEO manager and we talked about it and then realized, the organization did not own the building but only renting it. several hurried fone calls went back East to our parent group discussing this and pointing out the original policy was written for Maryland - our headquarters not for the Colorado operations! It was pointed out to those back East that Colorado had a large CCW/OC carry population and the embarrassment of HR 'forcing' someone to open their vehicle w/o propable cause could result in a significant financial judgement against the company.

apparently they checked w/counsel and the HR manager received a call from her director back East and was told to stand down on this issue and the president advised the local VP to control his ppl as they try to overachieve...

once the gossip spread through the work force, it was interesting to note how many employees, myself included, parked their vehicles in surrounding parking lots and on the public streets...hmmm

my safety cohort in another aerospace company indicated they do not worry about firearms in employee parking lot vehicles per se unless they have a reason - disgruntled due to termination etc., and then they just call the LEO to deal w/the individual to get them off the property.

(what is two cents worth in today's economy?)

wabbit

ps: i truly did not care about my co-workers knowing i carry, teach NRA and CCW classes as it is off time and trust me if i got questioned about it they would see a gentleman lose his cool big time.

You know, this thread is exactly why I LOVE me some OCDO!! Great discussions on valid topics, with people of good will from many sides learning from each other while we "jealously guard" our rights, in compliance with the Constitution. Keep up the good work . . . . .

I work for the state, 16 years, and drive a state car, and even carry a state badge, have a CHP, yet am not allowed to carry a weapon to protect myself! Tell me THAT does not stink. And, as a man, they consistently give me the most ghetto dangerous type territory to work. . . . .

thebigsd said:

Southern Boy, While someone seeing my gun after work doesn't prove I had it there, it does give my company cause to ask to search my car. Of course I could refuse and then they could just fire me.

Peter, I like the way you put it and agree that the school type statute without the permit clause is the way to go.

Old Virginia Joe, I don't want to trample private property rights either. The thing is most of these places don't ban firearms on the property except for employees. In my last two jobs customers were allowed to carry in the store but I couldn't keep mine locked in my vehicle. That is the sillyness I want to get rid of.

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"Southern Boy, While someone seeing my gun after work doesn't prove I had it there, it does give my company cause to ask to search my car. Of course I could refuse and then they could just fire me."

It doesn't give them cause to search your car... they could make up a reason to do that for just about anything at anytime they want. And since Virginia is an "employment at will" state, you can be terminated for any reason or no reason at all. At my last job, a major federal government defense contractor, they would conduct random searches of ones packages and purses (women) when we entered the building. I never saw or heard of them searching an employee's car for anything and if they wanted to do that to mine.... well, it wasn't going to happen. I'd just get a job somewhere else if they decided to let me go.

Best thing to do is to keep one's mouth shut and IF you decide to take your firearm to work and leave it in your car, don't advertise this unless the company has no problem with it. If someone were to see me carrying outside of work after hours, and it did happen a number of times with me at my last job, then that's my business. The folks who saw me carrying never mentioned it and it never came up on any conversation.

So if you perceive a potential problem or reason to be concerned and you can't afford to lose your job, don't invite a situation where your position may be put in jeopardy. In such cases, prudence should be your watchword.

Constitutional Carry would be a much better goal.

I think a bill to remove the infringements on ones choice of carry method would be a much better goal, i.e Constitutional Carry. I know some here incorrectly consider CC a privilege instead of recognizing the permit requirement as the unconstitutional infringement that it is. Unfortunately, it seems that it is easier for people to come up with silly slogans to fuel arguments between people simply based upon ones method of carry.

I have respect for the private property rights issue. However when you start employing 10-20-500 people? And build a big ol parking lot... You already are giving up alot of property rights. Should a private employer be able to deny anyone from entering their property; like a private homeowner can? What if the business says people with red hair are prohibited from entry? Point is when you start a business alot of the property rights are given up anyway!

So just like others mentioned similar to the new rules for dropping the kids off at school. And only applies to inside of vehicle. I dont see a major issue compared to a de factor 5day a week carry ban for many virginians

Toad said:

I think a bill to remove the infringements on ones choice of carry method would be a much better goal, i.e Constitutional Carry. I know some here incorrectly consider CC a privilege instead of recognizing the permit requirement as the unconstitutional infringement that it is. Unfortunately, it seems that it is easier for people to come up with silly slogans to fuel arguments between people simply based upon ones method of carry.

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Toad while I beleve constitional carry is the ultimate goal, it would not stop employers from ordering no firearms in their parking lot, which is the problem we are discussing in this thread. The parking lot bill must protect employees from employers.

Wolf_shadow said:

While my vehicle maybe parked on my employers lot, the vehicle and what is in it is still my property, and should be off limits to them! Just because I work for someone doesn't give them the right to search my property, so make this an employee rights bill.

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+1000

To me it is so black and white. Respect property rights of the employee as well as the employer. What is in my car is my business.

well guys, at least you have a voice.

Me, being military, have no chance in hell to take a firearm to work.

......(remember fort knox shooting and how it could have been ended quick)


It would be nice, but its too touchy, so I just arm up when I get home, and go about my day. Many times have I gone home to arm up just to go back out again. Totally worth it IMO.

Old Virginia Joe said:

I agree this situation sucks, and I don't like it either. HOWEVER, what I hate even MORE is a law-body making me allow something on my PRIVATE property that I don't agree with! I assume the boss also owns the parking lot, right? Imagine if you are the business owner, and your LIBERAL employee gets a law to force you to allow THEM to do something you don't like at work, maybe like hanging a pro-Jane Fonda poster in his work space, under freedom of speech. How would you like that? Let us be careful what law-making we promote that denies the rights of private property owners to set the standards for what does and does not go on on their OWN property. Otherwise, we are just hypocrites, like the libtards. Sometimes, holding onto freedom for all requires us to hold our noses and just deal with it. This proposal is NOT a conservative principle. Our founders would probably not agree with the proposal, IMHO.

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I see no parallel at all to the argument your making. We are talking about a firearm that is secured, unseen in the employees vehicle. If an employer was to ever even see it there would have to be a vehicle search. Your argument does not jive with that situation at all. BTW, in my case the public can open carry. I however cant even carry wile commuting. IMHO, that is not something the founders or anyone that loves freedom should agree with.