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Retention, retention, retention!!

Gr8gunz

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
16
Location
Glendale, AZ
I am paranoid about retention especially when I OC which is 99% of the time. Nothing is more frightening to me than some cokehead grabbing my handgun from behind. To prevent that I carry a level III Safariland holster. Yes, it slows down the draw a bit but it's a good trade off for me. I don't have to be Doc Holiday out there. There are lots more level III holsters out there now since I bought mine but I haven't found one that does the job any better than the Safari. Anybody else out there use a level III?
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Take a martial arts class that is slanted toward weapons retention, it will go a long way to ease your mind. Taking a gun from a person is not all that easy if they have some sense of awareness. Most criminals are probably paranoid committing a crime, so probably the last thing they want is a interaction where they might get shot.

You can also find videos on YouTube but make sure they are professionals that are doing the videos and have common sense techniques. If the actions seem to complicated you probably will not remember them. Do not practice them at home with a loaded gun, or even a unloaded one. Buy a cheap airsoft the same as your gun.

I had two unsuccessful gun grabs as a LEO, and both were with a thumb snap leather duty holster, both from behind. One a nurse friend that thought she was being cute, I fractured her wrist before I realized it was her. The other was a very serious attempt from a man's wife that I was trying to handcuff, she suffered a broken nose. The procedure I used is very simple. Grab the hand on the gun force it down to keep a draw from happening, and then spin your body away from the grabber. They will lose grip and balance, sometimes resulting in injuring their arm. While doing this their face will become a target for the off hand, they will be to busy trying to keep balance to defend. Most grabs are from the back, but if one should come from the front, grab the hand and start punching, depending on the location of your gun turn to bend the wrist of the grabber backwards.

I suggest going to a MA instructor though rather than videos or written directions. It is just not the same as hands on.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I use the Force and "push" them back without ever touching them.

As to the holster, which gets me back OT, I use two types depending on the situation.

Level 2 retention holster[SUP]1[/SUP]: http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Spo...,1146,1410.htm

Level I retention holster[SUP]2[/SUP]: http://www.desantisholster.com/store...HOLSTERS/Viper

I use the Viper when I am hunting/out in the woods. Covers the pistol more than the Blackhawk, which is important to me in the Lowcountry.






[SUP]1[/SUP] Not a advertisement or endorsement of this product.
[SUP]2[/SUP] Not a advertisement or endorsement of this product.
 

Gr8gunz

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
16
Location
Glendale, AZ
<snip>
I suggest going to a MA instructor though rather than videos or written directions. It is just not the same as hands on.

Thanks for the lecture but MA is not an option. I am a disabled vet confined to a wheelchair and have my Sarfariland strapped to the side and very visible. I am quite aware of my surroundings thank you but I'm quite sure that any physical resistence I could mount against a BG would be rather fruitless. I would suggest to you that most of us know what's best for our particular situation and make some inquiries before launching into a lengthy and unneeded speech of what you think we should do as opposed to what we are doing. BTW, in case you're interested, I am an NRA certified instructor and a CCW instructor for the state of Arizona.
 

Gr8gunz

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
16
Location
Glendale, AZ
I use the Force and "push" them back without ever touching them.

As to the holster, which gets me back OT, I use two types depending on the situation.

Level 2 retention holster[SUP]1[/SUP]: http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Spo...,1146,1410.htm

Level I retention holster[SUP]2[/SUP]: http://www.desantisholster.com/store...HOLSTERS/Viper

I use the Viper when I am hunting/out in the woods. Covers the pistol more than the Blackhawk, which is important to me in the Lowcountry.


[SUP]1[/SUP] Not a advertisement or endorsement of this product.
[SUP]2[/SUP] Not a advertisement or endorsement of this product.

LOL, love the force option. I use it whenever possible. :rolleyes:

I like the blackhawk also but it got some bad press about safety. Seems that folks are shooting themselves in the foot on drawing from it so many instructors won't even allow them in class. I don't agree with that as any retention holster requires great familiarity with it. Accidents with firearams involving injuries are always the fault of the operator. Blaming the equipment is an excuse for poor habits.
 

decklin

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Pacific, WA
Thanks for the lecture but MA is not an option. I am a disabled vet confined to a wheelchair and have my Sarfariland strapped to the side and very visible. I am quite aware of my surroundings thank you but I'm quite sure that any physical resistence I could mount against a BG would be rather fruitless. I would suggest to you that most of us know what's best for our particular situation and make some inquiries before launching into a lengthy and unneeded speech of what you think we should do as opposed to what we are doing. BTW, in case you're interested, I am an NRA certified instructor and a CCW instructor for the state of Arizona.

Take a moment to relax. Instead of reacting negatively to the info given just appreciate the fact that a stranger was doing what he thought was a good thing. Walking Wolf made a comment based off of your statements.

I've looked at getting a level 3 but for the time being use level 2 for OC and various level 1's for CC. I was leaning towards a Blade Tech LVL3.
 

decklin

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Pacific, WA
LOL, love the force option. I use it whenever possible. :rolleyes:

I like the blackhawk also but it got some bad press about safety. Seems that folks are shooting themselves in the foot on drawing from it so many instructors won't even allow them in class. I don't agree with that as any retention holster requires great familiarity with it. Accidents with firearams involving injuries are always the fault of the operator. Blaming the equipment is an excuse for poor habits.

I absolutely agree with that! If the operator shoots themselves because they had their finger on the trigger then how is it the holster that caused it?
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
LOL, love the force option. I use it whenever possible. :rolleyes:

I like the blackhawk also but it got some bad press about safety. Seems that folks are shooting themselves in the foot on drawing from it so many instructors won't even allow them in class. I don't agree with that as any retention holster requires great familiarity with it. Accidents with firearams involving injuries are always the fault of the operator. Blaming the equipment is an excuse for poor habits.
Yes, I have read where it is alleged that the Blackhawk retention system has caused some folks to to permit their finger to bend into the trigger guard area. Where by the previously straight finger was forced by the retention system to bend onto the trigger and thus initiate a weapon discharge.

I can see how that could happen.:rolleyes:

I have not had the above occur to me. But!! I seem to have exceptionally firm control (the Force maybe?) over my trigger finger where as some other folks may need further practice to control their trigger finger.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Thanks for the lecture but MA is not an option. I am a disabled vet confined to a wheelchair and have my Sarfariland strapped to the side and very visible. I am quite aware of my surroundings thank you but I'm quite sure that any physical resistence I could mount against a BG would be rather fruitless. I would suggest to you that most of us know what's best for our particular situation and make some inquiries before launching into a lengthy and unneeded speech of what you think we should do as opposed to what we are doing. BTW, in case you're interested, I am an NRA certified instructor and a CCW instructor for the state of Arizona.

It wasn't intended to be a lecture, just suggestions. I had no idea or knowledge that you were disabled veteran, thank you for your service. I taking it as a guess it is not easy to be disabled in a wheelchair. Just a suggestion again, but it might help to give some background when asking for advice, and try not to be so touchy when someone gives it. Especially when they are doing it blind to your circumstances.
 

HearseGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
172
Location
VA
Yes, I have read where it is alleged that the Blackhawk retention system has caused some folks to to permit their finger to bend into the trigger guard area. Where by the previously straight finger was forced by the retention system to bend onto the trigger and thus initiate a weapon discharge.

I can see how that could happen.:rolleyes:

I have not had the above occur to me. But!! I seem to have exceptionally firm control (the Force maybe?) over my trigger finger where as some other folks may need further practice to control their trigger finger.

For what its worth, I use a Blackhawk Lvl 2serpa for my Glock 17 every day carry. I love it. I do not understand how one could manage to draw and slam the trigger and get a negligent discharge. My finger ends up perfectly indexed on the frame. I, like most, however have had trigger discipline pounded into my head since I was old enough to understand what a gun was. So it is a non issue.

I highly recommend the Blackhawk
 
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OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Thanks for the lecture but MA is not an option. <snip>
Why not? A MA instructor may be able to give you a few tips given your special circumstance. All he can say is that he can't help you, or his help will not meet your needs. Give it a look-see, you may have more options than you think there are.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Why not? A MA instructor may be able to give you a few tips given your special circumstance. All he can say is that he can't help you, or his help will not meet your needs. Give it a look-see, you may have more options than you think there are.

I was also thinking a concealed bug might be a good option for somebody in a wheel chair or at least a knife to stab them with.

I don't know the OP's disability so again I am suggesting blind, but here ya go...

[video=youtube;BuKBK-SoxwQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuKBK-SoxwQ[/video]
 
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SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
I was also thinking a concealed bug might be a good option for somebody in a wheel chair or at least a knife to stab them with.

I don't know the OP's disability so again I am suggesting blind, but here ya go...

[video=youtube;BuKBK-SoxwQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuKBK-SoxwQ[/video]

WalkingWolf nailed it there! There are MA instructors who are knowledgeable about helping those who have various physical limitations. Contact different ones and see if there is not one in your area who can meet your needs.

I also thank you, sir, for your service.
 

Gr8gunz

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
16
Location
Glendale, AZ
It wasn't intended to be a lecture, just suggestions. I had no idea or knowledge that you were disabled veteran, thank you for your service. I taking it as a guess it is not easy to be disabled in a wheelchair. Just a suggestion again, but it might help to give some background when asking for advice, and try not to be so touchy when someone gives it. Especially when they are doing it blind to your circumstances.

Herein lies the crux of the matter. I can be as touchy as I want to anyone who gives me advice I never asked for. It was your assumptions about me that led to your lecture, intentions notwithstanding. I stated what I require from a holster and which holster I ultimately chose to fulfill that requirement. My post did not necessitate a detailed explanation of my particular situation to the entire forum. Now, *IF* I had asked for advice as to how to accomodate my situation I suppose I would have been more forthcoming about my personal problems. Furthermore if I had asked for the kind of advice which you offered, I would have asked it in a more appropriate thread. Martial arts, mental awareness and hand to hand self defense is an entirely different conversation from holsters & Accessories. Myself being at risk of lecturing, may I suggest that you find out a few details before making suggestions you think might benefit someone else.

Off topic comment: FEINSTEIN LOST!!!!!:banana:
 

Gr8gunz

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
16
Location
Glendale, AZ
Why not? <snip>

Because that is what I choose. I need not explain myself further on this matter. You have no idea as to the extent of my disability and I refuse to discuss the subject any further. This thread is supposed to be a discussion about holsters and accessories but has morphed into this silly banter about me and martial arts. Isn't there a martial arts forum you guys can go to and leave me out of it? I joined this forum to discuss OC and NOT my personal situation. I will not respond to anymore posts concerning that. I wish the forum moderator would jump in here and get it back on track.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I am paranoid about retention especially when I OC which is 99% of the time. Nothing is more frightening to me than some cokehead grabbing my handgun from behind. To prevent that I carry a level III Safariland holster. Yes, it slows down the draw a bit but it's a good trade off for me. I don't have to be Doc Holiday out there. There are lots more level III holsters out there now since I bought mine but I haven't found one that does the job any better than the Safari. Anybody else out there use a level III?

I never worry about cokeheads but its good that you are preparing/prepared to maintain your firearm ... heck, in an emergency anyone could act like a cokehead.

Good thing you don't want to be like Doc Holiday ... he died at 36 yrs of age ... (natural causes)
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Because that is what I choose. I need not explain myself further on this matter. You have no idea as to the extent of my disability and I refuse to discuss the subject any further. This thread is supposed to be a discussion about holsters and accessories but has morphed into this silly banter about me and martial arts. Isn't there a martial arts forum you guys can go to and leave me out of it? I joined this forum to discuss OC and NOT my personal situation. I will not respond to anymore posts concerning that. I wish the forum moderator would jump in here and get it back on track.
Retention, considering the OP title is "Retention, retention, retention!!" is more than a Level III holster doing all of the retaining for you. No accessory will keep your pistol in your hand once you remove it from your holster. No holster will assist you in retaining your pistol in your hand.

I'm not sure what you are asking at this point. I provided my recommendations on holsters, as requested. Welcome to OCDO and good luck.
 

Gr8gunz

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
16
Location
Glendale, AZ
For what its worth, I use a Blackhawk Lvl 2serpa for my Glock 17 every day carry. I love it. I do not understand how one could manage to draw and slam the trigger and get a negligent discharge. My finger ends up perfectly indexed on the frame. I, like most, however have had trigger discipline pounded into my head since I was old enough to understand what a gun was. So it is a non issue.

I highly recommend the Blackhawk

I like that holster also and used it before I got the Safari which offers one step more. When I draw from the Blackhawk my trigger finger falls right where it should along side of the handgun. I did some experimenting with it and found that my finger could slip inside the trigger guard if I pressed the release by bending my finger and using my finger tip. I suspect this is the problem those ADs are experiencing. Point the finger straight down the side of the holster and depress the release with the flat part of the finger and it should fall where is belongs. Just a theory though.
 

tomrkba

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Virginia
I am a disabled vet confined to a wheelchair and have my Sarfariland strapped to the side and very visible.

Why don't you carry the gun on your hip? The gun will go with you if you get knocked out of your chair or a bad guy dumps you out of it. A disabled vet (double leg amputee due to IED) in one gun class I attended carried his HK on his hip. He did several scenarios where he was dumped out of his chair by the bad guy. Other scenarios included drawing and shooting from the ground.
 
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