Cops ... not looking for this one - acting like 5yr olds with deaf folks ...

Primus said:

Oc can you please cite and explain the "force continuum" your referring to? Can you list any training you've had on said continuum? I ask because your speaking as if your an expert and can tell when or what level an officer is at. Also can you furnish the definition or resisting arrest? Again... for those of us who don't know enlighten us so we can be on the same level as you.

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stealthyeliminator said:

Even if that's true and she was intentionally defying the officer's commands, the officer is still wrong, and still inclined to violence, and still has an ego problem, and still needs to find a new job...

(...snip...)

The cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong. He obviously has issues, and is incapable of conducting himself in a controlled, professional manner.

Don't get me wrong, perhaps she did act like a child. That doesn't justify the officer's actions, though - they can both be wrong.

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Primus said:

Define violent criminal behavior please. And provide example of possible. Not a cite just and example so we are clear on what you mean.

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OC for ME said:

Google is your friend.

https://www.google.com/search?q=for...7O5H0oASe3YDYDg&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=946

Please enlighten me if these examples are not what you know to be the "levels of force" to be used once force must be used by a police officer. Google "handcuffed and beaten." Happens more than I like, but those instances must be "judged" on their own merits.

When is it appropriate for a cop to use a level of force one or more "notches" above the "suspects" actions?

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Surv...egedly-beating-handcuffed-teen-214091551.html

Beating, or striking, a citizen in restraints.....hmm. I guess it is a subjective thing and my opinion holds little weight. But my unconditional compliance is demanded.

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Primus said:

Oc...... you posted a Google photo of images.

That doesnt respond to any other questions I asked. Wow its a pretty picture with colors...

You've been talking on here as if you've had some kind of training on what actual my constitutes the different levels and how the process works. For example you seen to think that you need to go through every step from presence to deadly force. You don't. You can jump up and done the continuum. As situation dictates.

I was pretty sure you were talking out of your other orifice about this just wanted to make sure. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt to show me you knew what you were talking about and weren't just spouting bad info.

For example can you taze someone while they are handcuffed? Do you gave to use tazer before gun when faced with a knife? Where does he taser fall in that use if force continuum? Is there a different level for deploying prongs as opposed to drive stunning someone? Where does of spray fall?

What actions constitute active versus passive resisting arrest? How do you react accordingly?

If you want to spend sometime googling those questions then good.... at least you'll be informed next time you spout off about things your not really familiar with.

For the record, really trying not to be a d bag. It just irritates me she guys spout about things that they don't know. Instead of actually asking questions and giving guys the chance to clear up any confusion. I wouldn't spout out information about particle physics nor plumbing then say that plumbers are animals for not plunging the toilet right.

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OC for ME said:

You may think what you like. Or, you could read what I write, review the images.....one of those is what the FBI does or did "teach" its agents on the levels of force and what is "required" to go to the next level.

I never stated that a cop could not jump right to lethal force. There examples of cops using force (skipping over levels of force) where that force was not justified by the actions of the "perp."

A cop must be able to use that force he thinks reasonable at that moment to mitigate a threat AND NOT ONE NEWTON-METER MORE OF FORCE MUST BE USED!!!!

Your zeal to protect the cop industry is commendable. Your profession is replete with stories of bad cops being protected by the "system." There is very little evidence, if any, that a bad cop's fellow cops (the good ones) will lift a finger to boot them out of LE.

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OC for ME said:

A taser is a lethal weapon. Tasers have killed citizens. Pepper spray is a chemical agent and would be cited as a terror weapon if not used justifiably. Chemical weapons are a no-no. Tools that are used in the force continuum are not levels of force, just tools, just like the gun. A gun could be used to control (visual), dissuade (warning shot), injure, or kill. The tool could be used up and down (or around) the force continuum.

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SFCRetired said:

I don't know whether it is just being reported more or whether there is an actual increase in police violence. Can someone point me in the right direction to find the statistics from, say, 1947 to the present?

Another thing that piques my curiosity, after having read of several LEOs in my state being arrested for trafficking steroids, is how many of those officers who seem to be so out of control are under the influence of what my younger friends tell me is 'roid rage? Is the use of steroids among law enforcement that common?

This is not an attempt at bashing, but is an honest inquiry into matters this Old Man just does not understand.

I will definitely agree, after having run into it in my military career, that there are those who will use any ploy at their command to escape the consequences of their actions. Back in 1961, when I went through Basic Combat Training, we had a group to whom English was a second language, but who had been taught English in public school, some of whom would utter the phrase, "No hablo Inglis" any time they heard something they didn't like or were given an order they did not want to obey. When a couple of them were sent to the Ft. Jackson stockade for a few days and returned to the unit, we didn't see any more of that behavior.

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Primus said:

Oc..... taser is a less than lethal weapon.... your wrong. And it can be used at level 3 which is active resistance.

And wtf are u talking about oc spray is a terror weapon?? You can carry and use oc in some states.

And finally..... your wrong about the tool and corresponding level. I can't pull my gun and point it you while asking for license for running a stop light. You have to justify your use of said tool and why you felt you could have been at that LEVEL.

For example, if I pull my taser take the cartridge off point it at you then spark it I need to write a use of force report. Said report must explain why I did that. In it I better be able to articulate why I felt you were going actively resist. Can't just say I did it to persuade you pull your license faster ......

So again..... you CANNOT just use your tool willy nilly up and down the continuum. Ghats wrong and bad advice. You can jump levels but your doing exactly that jumping. If when I go on a raid my gun is drawn because I have the belief that we my already be at the risk of death or bkddily harm level. I can articulate that.

Whatever class you got on UOF please get your money back sir....

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