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My very first MWAG call....HAHA

Maine Expat

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
235
Location
Ukraine & Bangor Maine
I'm another member piling on with the original poster; Well handled good sir, especially for your first MWAG call. Thanks for sharing your experience, and for the friendly manner in which you dealt with the police.

I don't understand why everyone is piling on about the OP providing his ID. The cop asked him for it, and he made HIS choice. Just because a large majority here don't feel that you should provide your ID to a cop, doesn't mean its the wrong choice.

I've remained silent for a couple days, but I'm going to chime in and support Torque in his decision because its HIS decision to make.

And yes many here ARE flaming the guy and need to stop.

We're SUPPOSED to be working together to further the OC cause not beat each other up because someone isn't "doing it" the way you like.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Be that as it may......Since I have posted this thread of a POSITIVE LEO encounter, 90% of what I have gotten gotten was negativity, made fun of and basically called stupid without it actually being said. This leads me to believe that this place supports a negative outlook on cops and the jobs they do. I bid you people farewell on your conspiracy theorist ideas and will continue my 2a on my own. I may or may not be back

You'll be back, this site has too much good information to let a little quibbling stop you. You didn't receive fawning adulation or even 100% support, but that's just the way life is, you take the good with the bad. Stay. Read. Learn. Participate.
 
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LoneEchoWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Messages
285
Location
Alamosa,Colorado
You'll be back, this site has too much good information to let a little quibbling stop you. You didn't receive fawning adulation or even 100% support, but that's just the way life is, you take the good with the bad. Stay. Read. Learn. Participate.

This site is also suppose to not allow personal attacks, nor advocating unlawful activity and it happens entirely too much. and seems the more "stars" or money you gave them the more your able to get away with. i love to see so many non Colorado residents spewing off at the mouth about something that was a good encounter. Also its suppose to be pro Leo and will not allow bashing of LEO but it happens too much too.

On a side note, at the time of the "stop" were you operating a motor vehicle? keys in the ignition, started, listening to music, whatever? because if your operating a motor vehicle you have to provide drivers license. not going to cite, mostly because if the mods cant even handle personal attacks and things of that nature i don't really think i need to cite. not to mention any SMART person knows the law and knows you have to while operating a motor vehicle.
 
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kanekutter05

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Aurora, CO
Ok...so I just went back an reread every post in this thread...

The ONLY two posts I would even consider flaming are the 1st post by twoskinsonemanns and when Citizen said something about OP's feelings getting hurt. Yes, he wasn't as experienced as some on this board in interacting with LEOs. But in reality he did post here to get a bunch of "Atta boy" type confirmation and he did get awfully sensitive fairly quickly when some brought up what he may have done better. In fact, there were a couple people who said they were glad the stop ended well in spite of giving up his rights as well as acknowleding that giving up his rights was his choice.

Personally, I think if he got offended at people trying to help him understand his rights and why it's not a good idea to give them up (on an internet message board no less)...then he probably doesn't have thick enough skin to deal with a LEO who stops him who's NOT nice about him carrying. In which case it's probably not a good idea for him to be open carrying in the 1st place. Just my $0.02

Also side note...MT I would LOVE to head out with you on an OC expedition soon. Company bonus should be clearing my account in the next week or two, I should be able to re-purchase my gun and a holster shortly thereafter (had to sell it due to a financial situation...I didn't have any money :D) Especially since you're a fellow Aurora-ite...Aurora-an...Auroran?
 
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twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
On a side note, at the time of the "stop" were you operating a motor vehicle? keys in the ignition, started, listening to music, whatever? because if your operating a motor vehicle you have to provide drivers license. not going to cite

Please do cite. Honestly if there is a law that requires you to provide a DL to a cop that has abosolutely no RAS to detain you, and no PC that you committed some traffic violation and is not part of a scheduled and sanctioned road block/license check I would really really really want to know about it.
 
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Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Howdy Again!
And you have a real problem being civil to another member of the forum. That was made clear in the following condescending, inappropriate and insulting remark.

>Now look what y'all conspiracy theorists have done. You've hurt his feelings. Meanies. Stop writing uncomfortable things on the internet.

Please cite where he said his feelings were hurt. He never made any such statement.
He did say that he posted a positive experience and all he got was slammed for complying with a request for I.D. from an officer.
Did it ever occur to you that an officer that doesn't have RAS when approaching a citizen might view their refusal to provide identification as RAS?
And I'd bet it could stand up in most courts too.

There have been calls for civility on the Colorado board many times. We never seem to have trouble with Colorado folks, just with people from elsewhere who don't feel obliged to accord civility to another member. Look back through the thread, and you'll see other people calling for civility.

Guess that's just too darn much to ask from people who feel it is their right to belittle another member.

That a straight enough line?

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
You've missed the point of RAS completely. It must exist "before" the contact is made, not as a consequence of it. Without it, there can be no contact lawfully. Any contact made is purely consensual and you have the right to say AMF and be on your way. As you have done this, I'm surprised at your statement. It would not stand up in any court in CO, or Federal court.
As to "slamming him" for showing ID, I, at least among others, clearly stated that it was 'his' choice, no harm, no foul. However, he did not have to do it under the law. That isn't slamming, but rather educating.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
The ONLY two posts I would even consider flaming are the 1st post by twoskinsonemanns

I demand satisfaction sir!
Yes I said he was intimidated but we he corrected me I said I was sorry and that it was an assumption!

Really! :D


Also it's a little surprising to see these get-the-F-out-of-our-CO-forum type posts. Not very welcoming. :banana:
 

LoneEchoWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Messages
285
Location
Alamosa,Colorado
Please do cite. Honestly if there is a law that requires you to provide a DL to a cop that has abosolutely no RAS to detain you, and no PC that you committed some traffic violation and is not part of a scheduled and sanctioned road block/license check I would really really really want to know about it.

42-4-1707. Summons and complaint or penalty assessment notice for misdemeanors, petty offenses, and misdemeanor traffic offenses - release - registration. (6) If the defendant is otherwise eligible to be issued a summons and complaint or a penalty assessment notice for a violation of this title punishable as a misdemeanor, petty offense, or misdemeanor traffic offense and if the defendant does not possess a valid Colorado driver's license, the defendant, in order to secure release, as provided in this section, must either consent to be taken by the officer to the nearest mailbox and to mail the amount of the penalty and surcharge thereon to the department or must execute a promise to appear in court on the penalty assessment notice or on the summons and complaint. If the defendant does possess a valid Colorado driver's license, the defendant shall not be required to execute a promise to appear on the penalty assessment notice or on the summons and complaint. The peace officer shall not require any person who is eligible to be issued a summons and complaint or a penalty assessment notice for a violation of this title to produce or divulge such person's social security number.

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is required when you're driving or flying. Driving without a license is a crime, and no one is allowed to board an airplane without first presenting proper identification. These requirements have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to carry ID can choose not to drive or fly. http://knowmyrights.org/faq/4th-amendment/when-do-i-have-to-show-id.html

42-2-101. Licenses for drivers required.

42-2-101(1) Driver's license-Driving W/OUT, Guilty. Class plea(T2)

When you are operating a motor vehicle you are obligated to provide drivers license when asked for it, along with proof of insurance and registration or its ticket able under operating a motor vehicle without a license no insurance and so forth. If your behind that wheel with keys in the ignition your operating that vehicle and need to be license to do so.
 
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kanekutter05

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Aurora, CO
I demand satisfaction sir!
Yes I said he was intimidated but we he corrected me I said I was sorry and that it was an assumption!

Really! :D


Also it's a little surprising to see these get-the-F-out-of-our-CO-forum type posts. Not very welcoming. :banana:

Honestly I'm not sure how this thread got that incendiary. I don't personally believe you were flaming the dude...I just said that was one of the only two that could be taken as flaming.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti...you are forgiven of your transgressions! :banana:
 
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twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
42-4-1707. Summons and complaint or penalty assessment notice for misdemeanors, petty offenses, and misdemeanor traffic offenses - release - registration. (6) If the defendant is otherwise eligible to be issued a summons and complaint or a penalty assessment notice for a violation of this title punishable as a misdemeanor, petty offense, or misdemeanor traffic offense and if the defendant does not possess a valid Colorado driver's license, the defendant, in order to secure release, as provided in this section, must either consent to be taken by the officer to the nearest mailbox and to mail the amount of the penalty and surcharge thereon to the department or must execute a promise to appear in court on the penalty assessment notice or on the summons and complaint. If the defendant does possess a valid Colorado driver's license, the defendant shall not be required to execute a promise to appear on the penalty assessment notice or on the summons and complaint. The peace officer shall not require any person who is eligible to be issued a summons and complaint or a penalty assessment notice for a violation of this title to produce or divulge such person's social security number.

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is required when you're driving or flying. Driving without a license is a crime, and no one is allowed to board an airplane without first presenting proper identification. These requirements have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to carry ID can choose not to drive or fly. http://knowmyrights.org/faq/4th-amendment/when-do-i-have-to-show-id.html


42-2-101. Licenses for drivers required.

42-2-101(1) Driver's license-Driving W/OUT, Guilty. Class plea(T2)

When you are operating a motor vehicle you are obligated to provide drivers license when asked for it, along with proof of insurance and registration or its ticket able under operating a motor vehicle without a license no insurance and so forth. If your behind that wheel with keys in the ignition your operating that vehicle and need to be license to do so.

Did you post the right law?
Because I never said that you didn't need a license to drive. And I don't see anything in the laws you posted to back up your statement.
How about breaking it down for me....
Please post the one that says a cop can demand to run your license without RAS/PC?
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Honestly I'm not sure how this thread got that incendiary. I don't personally believe you were flaming the dude...I just said that was one of the only two that could be taken as flaming.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti...you are forgiven of your transgressions! :banana:

I was just kidding around man.
I don't really demand satisfaction. in fact IIRC.... I can't get no satisfaction.
 

F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
941
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
This site is also suppose to not allow personal attacks, nor advocating unlawful activity and it happens entirely too much. and seems the more "stars" or money you gave them the more your able to get away with. i love to see so many non Colorado residents spewing off at the mouth about something that was a good encounter. Also its suppose to be pro Leo and will not allow bashing of LEO but it happens too much too.

On a side note, at the time of the "stop" were you operating a motor vehicle? keys in the ignition, started, listening to music, whatever? because if your operating a motor vehicle you have to provide drivers license. not going to cite, mostly because if the mods cant even handle personal attacks and things of that nature i don't really think i need to cite. not to mention any SMART person knows the law and knows you have to while operating a motor vehicle.



WRONG!!! Even while operating a motor vehicle LEO MUST have RAS to make a stop and demand ID. If what you are saying were true LEO could just pull motorists over at random for a "Papers Check". Cite all the state law you want SCOUS still rules (Terry et all)
 
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kanekutter05

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Aurora, CO
I was just kidding around man.
I don't really demand satisfaction. in fact IIRC.... I can't get no satisfaction.

Oh I know :) I just wanted to say In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti...I think I've watched Boondock Saints too frequently

Oh and just so everyone sees what real flaming would look like (if I were actually being serious): The Stones are fruity and so is anyone who likes them :shocker:
 
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twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Oh I know :)I think I've watched Boondock Saints too frequently
Oh and just so everyone sees what real flaming would look like (if I were actually serious): The Stones are fruity and so is anyone who likes them :shocker:

:uhoh:

Just know friend how close you were to damnation with that Stones comment. Only the awesome Boondock Saint reference saved you!
 

Elhuero

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
24
Location
Colorado Springs
Howdy Elhuero!
There is a whole bunch of difference between getting negative feedback and being flamed for his opinion.
He certainly didn't expect to be flamed, and that nonsense is also prohibited by the rules of the forum.
I am surprised you'd compare his post to fishing for snide, cutting and unwarranted remarks.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin


I see where you're coming from, but I just don't think the responses he got were bad enough to warrant such a dramatic exit.

The whole idea that we should just give police "a break" and comply, or that we should just go along because "you don't have to worry if you have nothing to hide" is a very dangerous and slippery slope that will in time lead to the abolishing of the second amendment if we don't stop it. (I'd say nip it in the bud, but the anti movement has gone way past bud stage now)

My registration here came about in part from my experience at a large and popular gun forum where people who OC are called zealots and a chosen corps of LEO members and admins run the roost - not only apologizing for even the most egregious police abuses but also openly and freely insulting anyone who disagrees with them (supposedly a violation of the "rules")

Real flaming is what I got there, simply for disagreeing with the police. As well as being labeled a cop hater, given a boatload of infractions for "trolling", and even being compared to the Aurora gunman.

The anonymity of the internet gives many people you interact with a very big mouth and a lot of attitude. A thick skin is required for continued use.

I hope OP changes his mind and sticks around.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
LoneEchoWolf said:
"...On a side note, at the time of the "stop" were you operating a motor vehicle? keys in the ignition, started, listening to music, whatever? because if your[sic] operating a motor vehicle you have to provide drivers license..."
So my 12-yr old is on a dirt track with his car, keys in, motor started... he has to have a driving license?


"...not going to cite, mostly because if the mods cant even handle personal attacks and things of that nature i don't really think i need to cite. not to mention any SMART person knows the law and knows you have to while operating a motor vehicle..."
Snigger snerrrkkkkkk. "I'm not gonna cite any you can't Make me. I knows what I knows and you can't make me cite something that isn't there!"

SMART people know the law, regular ol' smart people know the difference between "your" and "you're."
 
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mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
So my 12-yr old is on a dirt track with his car, keys in, motor started... he has to have a driving license?



Snigger snerrrkkkkkk. "I'm not gonna cite any you can't Make me. I knows what I knows and you can't make me cite something that isn't there!"

SMART people know the law, regular ol' smart people know the difference between "your" and "you're."

And most people are above the petty attempts to denigrate another person using grammatical superiority quips.
 

mahkagari

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
, ,
And they wonder why we aren't welcoming of people invading our state forum. Ya big meanies.

[video=youtube;N4vf8N6GpdM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM[/video]
 
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LoneEchoWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Messages
285
Location
Alamosa,Colorado
And they wonder why we aren't welcoming of people invading our state forum. Ya big meanies.

[video=youtube;N4vf8N6GpdM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM[/video]

Ha love the video! very awesome! theres a whole battalion of Grammar Nazi on this site, some that can't even spell or put a proper paragraph together and yet open there big mouths as if they are something special. This sites going downhill, and fast. sure glad i stopped my donation when i did!
 
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