Tense Situation At Freedom Value Gas station..Prescott

Burl · Jul 27, 2013

If you perceive yourself as a liar not much I can do about it. If you truly are from the Milwaukee area that is a severe personal problem.

pkbites · Jul 27, 2013

Respond to the legal cite I posted, please. Do you still think the OP's son committed an illegal act? And if so, please post a cite evidencing what the illegal act was.

Burl · Jul 27, 2013

pkbites said:
Respond to the legal cite I posted, please. Do you still think the OP's son committed an illegal act? And if so, please post a cite evidencing what the illegal act was.

Forget it, bother someone else.

Burl · Jul 27, 2013

protias said:
One of the 3 dozen+ usernames this stalker has used.

Not me Joey. Go honk your illegal horn and almost cause an accident like your Protias channel on Youtube videos.

Maverick9 · Jul 27, 2013

rcawdor57 said:
She abused the law and should be charged and arrested. She could have ruined a man's life.

I suggest a small video recorder such as this: http://www.amazon.com/Veho-Muvi-Pro...UTF8&qid=1374886330&sr=8-2&keywords=muvi+veho worn at all times even when not carrying. I clip mine to the front of my shirt in the "Standby" mode and use it whenever I feel the need. It records about an hour and works well.

Stay frosty...

Careful, some members of the forum will have a hissy fit throw their skirts up over their heads and tell you you live in your mom's basement and are paranoid if you suggest carrying a running recorder.

Just sayin'...

Plankton · Jul 27, 2013

Burl said:
Forget it, bother someone else.

Says the loser of the debate. Those darn facts and citations :lol:

Burl · Jul 27, 2013

Maverick9 said:
Careful, some members of the forum will have a hissy fit throw their skirts up over their heads and tell you you live in your mom's basement and are paranoid if you suggest carrying a running recorder.

Just sayin'...

I betcha lil phil carries more than one running recorder. Got those ferocious lil dogs to kick and record.

Burl · Jul 27, 2013

Plankton said:
Says the loser of the debate. Those darn facts and citations :lol:

What debate? This fairytale thread is the real loser, neighbor.

rcawdor57 · Jul 27, 2013

Maverick9 said:
Careful, some members of the forum will have a hissy fit throw their skirts up over their heads and tell you you live in your mom's basement and are paranoid if you suggest carrying a running recorder.

Just sayin'...

LOL! I always have at least two recorders on me at all times. One runs for about 15 hours before recharging and the other is the small video recorder shown in my previous post. All my vehicles have GoPro recorders running whenever the ignition is on. I learned years ago to record everything to protect myself & used one of my recordings legally a few years back to prove fault. Small investment, years of protection.

We invest a lot of money & time for our right to keep & bear arms yet many refuse to carry a recording device to protect themselves.

Stay frosty!

Plankton · Jul 27, 2013

Burl said:
What debate? This fairytale thread is the real loser, neighbor.

*Yawn*

rcawdor57 · Jul 27, 2013

Not Worth Your Time Pete

pkbites said:
Respond to the legal cite I posted, please. Do you still think the OP's son committed an illegal act? And if so, please post a cite evidencing what the illegal act was.

Pete, don't waste your time with this "person". Most of us know you are a police officer and open carry when not on duty.

Stay frosty!

DrTodd · Jul 27, 2013

Wisconsin's sub-forum is starting to look like Michigan's.

The thread does bring up an issue which may be applicable anywhere OC is legal, though.

As background, I've been carrying about 10 years now, OCing about 6 years. One question I haven't been able to adequately answer: How does an OCer protect oneself from having somebody accuse the OCer of the behavior described in this post. I do wear an audio recorder and quite frankly, do so less often since OC in Michigan is fairly well accepted. In the situation described above, the OP had two things in his favor: a LEO who knew him and also knew that the OP carries openly. Also, there appears to be a store video to confirm the OP's behavior at the store. But, if an OCer doesn't have either of these to support their contention that they acted legally, it would seem it turns into a situation of who's more believable. Knowing the disposition of some LEOs to people open carrying, I can imagine that there is eventually going to be a situation where an OCer is successfully convicted of a crime...the elements being that a person carrying concealed exposed their pistol in order to intimidate someone. Although I see the value of having a video recorder taping the incident, the video is often filmed from the view if the carrier.

Has this been a concern of some of the OCers here and, if so, what can one do to lesson the possibility of being convicted?

Law abider · Jul 27, 2013

DrTodd said:
Wisconsin's sub-forum is starting to look like Michigan's.

The thread does bring up an issue which may be applicable anywhere OC is legal, though.

As background, I've been carrying about 10 years now, OCing about 6 years. One question I haven't been able to adequately answer: How does an OCer protect oneself from having somebody accuse the OCer of the behavior described in this post. I do wear an audio recorder and quite frankly, do so less often since OC in Michigan is fairly well accepted. In the situation described above, the OP had two things in his favor: a LEO who knew him and also knew that the OP carries openly. Also, there appears to be a store video to confirm the OP's behavior at the store. But, if an OCer doesn't have either of these to support their contention that they acted legally, it would seem it turns into a situation of who's more believable. Knowing the disposition of some LEOs to people open carrying, I can imagine that there is eventually going to be a situation where an OCer is successfully convicted of a crime...the elements being that a person carrying concealed exposed their pistol in order to intimidate someone. Although I see the value of having a video recorder taping the incident, the video is often filmed from the view if the carrier.

Has this been a concern of some of the OCers here and, if so, what can one do to lesson the possibility of being convicted?

Hi Dr Todd. Yes I have known my leo sargent buddy since 1996 when I first lived in Prescott. I have had him over my place for meals and at my mom's now for years. I have been to his home too. We know each other well and he knows I oc in summer with my shirts tucked in and cc in winter bec I have to put a winter jacket on. I try to get to know them. I also know my sheriff personally and some deputies. I have sent my account to my leo friend and so has my son. He did let that employee know that my civil rights were violated in front of me. The night manager who IDed me as black profusely apologized to me and acknowledged that I have a right to keep and bear arms. Now we have to wait to see what happens on Monday. I'll keep things posted

DrTodd · Jul 27, 2013

Helpful when you OC close to home, not so much outside your friend's jurisdiction. Yes, please keep us informed.

Burl · Jul 27, 2013

Law abider said:
On Friday night I was at the above mentioned gas station with my son who is 20 years old. He wanted one can of flavored beer which he got and we went to the counter. I am Ocing which I do all the time. I have been in that gas station before a gazillion times Ocing and have bought my snoot. Anyway, the cashier who I have not seen before asked for an ID. I looked at her and said 'My ID?" She said, "no, his". meaning my son's I said "I am buying the can." She said "But he brought it to the counter." My son said "WI law allows a parent or guardian to buy me beer." She was up front from the beginning and I could see that the situation was only going to get worst. She said" I cannot sell beer to a minor here because it is a convenience store. Only stores with a hard liquor license allow that. it is the law." My son said " I am a former Freedom employee and I have never heard of that." Rather than argue, we left and went to a liquor store and bought 1 can of beer. a fer minutes after we arrived home, I get a call from my constitutional leo buddy asking me where I was." I said "at moms'." he said "I need to come over and talk to you." "Good" I thought since I had been trying to get hold of him for a fer days. he came over in a police SUV and with his partner in a regular squad car. he said" some one just filed a complaint against you and I know it is false." he proceeded to tell me the events that unfolded after I left there. he got a 911 call saying that an Arab was at the store and because he was not served, lifted up his shirt and flashed a gun and left in a maroon car. I was in a white caddy. Then they did see a maroon car going up the highway and called for massive backup. Three squads from hastings MN across the river and two Pierce county deputies swarmed this maroon car and at gunpoint hauled out the terrified owner. OOPS
They then went back and inquired further from the employee, the description and one employee said he was black, but she recognized my name. I am a Caucasian. My leo buddy asked me ( by this time I had them both in the house and had served coffee) "was this what you were wearing?" I said " yes." I was dressed in good dress clothes with my shirt TUCKED in, which is what I ALWAYS do with my 357 at the hip.. he said I know you and you ALWAYS keep your shirt tucked in. He had recognized me finally and had toled the other cops/deputies who I was and that I have a 357. One deputy said that he too knew me. After coffee I drove back in the cruiser with my gun still at my hip to the gas station. He inquired further from the employee if I had actually lifted my shirt and flashed the gun? She said she was not sure. He said that I have a constitutional right to carry a handgun and that he knows my character and that I always have my shirt tucked in. he requested the security camera footage and that he was going to refer this case to a detective. He warned her of making false statements. Privately he told me that she could be arrested for what she did and that she had previously made false statements and I have a case against the gas station. Now I am wondering if the innocent driver who was stopped at gunpoint will take legal action? Boy What a night!!!!!!!!!! Thank God My leo buddy and his partner whom I also know were working the overnight shift!

On what friday night did this event take place? Yesterday? A week ago? Your next post states you could hardly sleep the night after the event. Are you sure it was friday?

The gas station has been made aware of this thread and your statements.

Plankton · Jul 27, 2013

Burl said:
On what friday night did this event take place? Yesterday? A week ago? Your next post states you could hardly sleep the night after the event. Are you sure it was friday?

The gas station has been made aware of this thread and your statements.

:lol:

Firearms Iinstuctor · Jul 27, 2013

I have found out over years that when the facts and story isn't going the way some one wants them do.

Some people resort to personal attacks and bending of the story.

MKEgal · Jul 28, 2013

protias said:
You don't know the law [strike]very well[/strike] at all do you?

This is Doug we're talking about. He knows laws, knows how to look them up, just likes stirring the pot & getting people riled up.
As with all his other user names, he's not worth bothering with and will be banned yet again very soon.

Law abider said:
What state do you reside in?? Hope not NY,Illinois or CA.

Some of Doug's profiles admit that he lives on his little island in WI, some say he lives in CA.

Law abider said:
Another incarnation of Liberal?

protias said:
One of the 3 dozen+ usernames this stalker has used.

Bingo.
When one's about to get banned for bad actions, another pops up.

davegran · Jul 28, 2013

DrTodd said:
Wisconsin's sub-forum is starting to look like Michigan's. ....

Hi DrTodd.
Yes, it is pretty pathetic when somebody has decided that the very best thing they can offer to a forum is to pee in the pool. It illustrates the state of their mental health. Luckily the ignore option still works and I am exercising it now.

BYE-BYE BURL !!

Burl · Jul 28, 2013

davegran said:
Hi DrTodd.
Yes, it is pretty pathetic when somebody has decided that the very best thing they can offer to a forum is to pee in the pool. It illustrates the state of their mental health. Luckily the ignore option still works and I am exercising it now.

BYE-BYE BURL !!

So you wanna play your childish bye bye game again Davey? I dont.

Tense Situation At Freedom Value Gas station..Prescott

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