Government Nonsense; Waco Biker Gunfight

Citizen said:

I'm afraid, Utbagpiper, your strong feelings against my rejection of government have led you to ignore a crucial point--why is government blaming the restaurant at all?

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What "blame"?

Did the police say, "Because the restaurant didn't cooperate it is the manager's fault that this happened,"?

Have the police charged the restaurant owner/manager with some crime?

How exactly has the restaurant been "blamed"?

Citizen said:

Whether I presented a false-dichotomy or not, your post still doesn't answer why police would mention "uncooperation" by the restaurant in the first place.

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So now you want the government and police to keep secrets now?

I suppose they mentioned it to make clear they had pursued every option they legally could to keep the peace and prepare....lest some anarchists types were to blame them for being caught with their pants down rather than placing blame for criminal violence on the scum-bag criminals who make a life of violence, crime, peddling drugs that destroy lives, etc.

Or maybe, they mentioned it simply because, you know, it is true. Crazy thought I know.

Lacking further information, methinks the cops did just about everything right they could here while respecting rights, not escalating a situation, and not nitpicking over a bunch of trivial laws you'd object to anyway (the options skidmark pointed out could have been pursued by an LEO type, rather than peace officers). I've not seen any serious injuries or deaths except among those criminal scum who voluntarily belong to their version of non-governmental service providers.

That the franchise has pulled the franchise from the establishment, suggest to me that corporate is not entirely happy with how the owner/manager chose to handle the situation.

My opinions subject to change pending more information. But thus far, I see nothing here to suggest anything from the police or government except what any sane, civilized man would want to see in this case...certainly nothing approaching "nonsense."

Charles

skidmark said:

Given your pronouncements elsewhere about the evil of government how can you agree with even those things you did not bold? Please use small words and type slowly so I can understand your response.

[aliquid hic]

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I...a g r e e...y o u r...a l t e r n a t i v e s ...f i t...w i t h i n...t h e...f r a m e w o r k...o f...l e g i t i m a t e...g u b b e r m i n t...r e c o g n i z e d...b y...o t h e r s.


You know Skidmark, I've been kinda holding something back, in part because I figured it would be kinda tasteless to mention it. But, your recent little attacks have pushed me to my limit on that point. So, here it goes.


Maybe I should've used small words and written slowly on those two checks I sent User to help defray the legal expenses defending a certain OCer who was prosecuted for brandishing his finger. You can copy and paste this post to him as my written authorization to him to verify it for you without revealing my name to you privately or anybody publicly.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sent money. Maybe you can keep that in mind before you sling pointless and insulting comments at members. You might be aiming your remarks at somebody who helped that finger-brandisher with cash.

Citizen said:

.


You know Skidmark, I've been kinda holding something back, in part because I figured it would be kinda tasteless to mention it. But, your recent little attacks have pushed me to my limit on that point. So, here it goes.


Maybe I should've used small words and written slowly on those two checks I sent User to help defray the legal expenses defending a certain OCer who was prosecuted for brandishing his finger. You can copy and paste this post to him as my written authorization to him to verify it for you without revealing my name to you privately or anybody publicly.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sent money. Maybe you can keep that in mind before you sling pointless and insulting comments at members. You might be aiming your remarks at somebody who helped that finger-brandisher with cash.

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You want your money back? Just tell me how much and give me a POB to send it to. I'll still thank you for your support at that moment.

[aliquid hic]

skidmark said:

You want your money back? Just tell me how much and give me a POB to send it to. I'll still thank you for your support at that moment.

[aliquid hic]

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Oh, no thanks. You just told the whole forum what sort of person you are.

You told the Forum your opinion of who you think Skid is - there is a difference that everyone can think for him/her-self.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

According to the Glen Beck Radio Program aired Yesterday, May 18th, as explained by an unnamed staffer of this program-- the meeting of the bikers was a COC (Coalition of Clubs) meeting where the Biker gangs--- not clubs have a regular meeting to determine among other things who they the COC are going to allow to where 3 piece patches on the back of the ride vests (cuts) especially among those gangs that claim ownership of certain territories. It seems there were some disagreements not settled amicably between certain participants who may have had a propensity for certain violations of law.:shocker:

Citizen said:

Oh, no thanks. You just told the whole forum what sort of person you are.

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Citizen said:

I...a g r e e...y o u r...a l t e r n a t i v e s ...f i t...w i t h i n...t h e...f r a m e w o r k...o f...l e g i t i m a t e...g u b b e r m i n t...r e c o g n i z e d...b y...o t h e r s.


You know Skidmark, I've been kinda holding something back, in part because I figured it would be kinda tasteless to mention it. But, your recent little attacks have pushed me to my limit on that point. So, here it goes.


Maybe I should've used small words and written slowly on those two checks I sent User to help defray the legal expenses defending a certain OCer who was prosecuted for brandishing his finger. You can copy and paste this post to him as my written authorization to him to verify it for you without revealing my name to you privately or anybody publicly.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sent money. Maybe you can keep that in mind before you sling pointless and insulting comments at members. You might be aiming your remarks at somebody who helped that finger-brandisher with cash.

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skidmark said:

You want your money back? Just tell me how much and give me a POB to send it to. I'll still thank you for your support at that moment.

[aliquid hic]

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Citizen said:

Oh, no thanks. You just told the whole forum what sort of person you are.

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Very telling exchange.

Skid is a man of honor and could never be perceived to sell his soul for 30 pieces of silver.

That you, Citizen, should suggest so blatantly that because you made a contribution to a fund (wherein Skid was a victim of prosecutor misconduct) that he somehow owes you a pass in these discussions is outrageous - I am appalled.

I would agree that he has again substantiated who and what he is - favorably so.

More is the shame that you have painted a most unflattering portrait of yourself and put it on public display. Are we seeing a Picture of Dorian Gray moment here?

Grapeshot said:

Very telling exchange.

Skid is a man of honor and could never be perceived to sell his soul for 30 pieces of silver.

That you, Citizen, should suggest so blatantly that because you made a contribution to a fund (wherein Skid was a victim of prosecutor misconduct) that he somehow owes you a pass in these discussions is outrageous - I am appalled.

I would agree that he has again substantiated who and what he is - favorably so.

More is the shame that you have painted a most unflattering portrait of yourself and put it on public display. Are we seeing a Picture of Dorian Gray moment here?

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You mean, despite the fact I expressly mentioned pointless and insulting comments, you somehow twisted my words to mean that I suggested he give me a pass?

How about, after a few undeserved sniping little insults, I start to wonder whether why I bothered to donate? Unless User gave him the donor list, he has no idea which anonymous members here donated.

So, you're appalled? How about others being appalled at his frankly jerkish antagonism against others? Antagonism that gets passed off euphemistically as "curmudgeonly-ness." Telling him he's being a jerk to somebody who helped, and might be a jerk to other anonymous donors doesn't even come close to telling him he owes me a pass. How about just knocking off being a jerk to people who helped?

Don't point fingers at me if he was so wrapped up in his curmudgeonly-ness that it never occurred to him he might be needlessly insulting and antagonising people who helped him.


How about being appalled that at the bottom of his arguments here is the false premise that I baselessly usurp a power to coerce other equals without their consent, and contribute to inflicting government's harms and destruction on them? Doesn't that appall you?

Citizen said:

How about being appalled that at the bottom of his arguments here is the false premise that I baselessly usurp a power to coerce other equals without their consent, and contribute to inflicting government's harms and destruction on them? Doesn't that appall you?

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Hammers sure do see a lot of nails.

skidmark said:

You want your money back? Just tell me how much and give me a POB to send it to. I'll still thank you for your support at that moment.

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Citizen said:

Oh, no thanks. You just told the whole forum what sort of person you are.

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Yes he did. And you did likewise.

Skid's the better for it.

You? Not so much.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

Yes he did. And you did likewise.

Skid's the better for it.

You? Not so much.

Charles

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And you just reached a new low, interjecting yourself in a personal spat that has nothing to do with you. To be honest though nothing you do surprises me anymore.

WalkingWolf said:

And you just reached a new low, interjecting yourself in a personal spat that has nothing to do with you. To be honest though nothing you do surprises me anymore.

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I offered my observations on a very public exchange. I saw no spat. I saw a disgusting attempt to presume to extort a man after the fact; and a very honorable retort.

What is low, is attempting to defend Citizen's conduct via an attack on me. If you find Citizen's conduct appropriate, just say so directly. If not, stand up and be counted.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

Or, if this is nothing but a cheap shot attempt to take a dig at me, notice that at least a couple of other third parties have shared similar sentiments as I. Tell then what lows they have reached and see how it goes over.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

I offered my observations on a very public exchange. I saw no spat. I saw a disgusting attempt to presume to extort a man after the fact; and a very honorable retort.

What is low, is attempting to defend Citizen's conduct via an attack on me. If you find Citizen's conduct appropriate, just say so directly. If not, stand up and be counted.

"All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

Or, if this is nothing but a cheap shot attempt to take a dig at me, notice that at least a couple of other third parties have shared similar sentiments as I. Tell then what lows they have reached and see how it goes over.

Charles

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One of those parties was a moderator, the other did not have problems with either member. YOU on the other hand are always attacking Citizen, and took another opportunity to stick your nose in, doing exactly what you are accusing me of. Some circles call that being a hypocrite.

WalkingWolf said:

One of those parties was a moderator, the other did not have problems with either member. YOU on the other hand are always attacking Citizen, and took another opportunity to stick your nose in, doing exactly what you are accusing me of. Some circles call that being a hypocrite.

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I did not see Grape responding as a moderator, nor offering any moderation. He appeared to offer his personal views of the situation. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm mis-assessed the situation.

And it looks to me like HPMatt was anything but supportive of Citizen.

The problem here, Walking Wolf, is that you have a problem with me. You take any and all disagreements with me as some kind of personal affront. You picked a really poor opportunity to try to attack me. I suggest you either get over your personal issues with me, or learn to ignore me.

Charles

The title of the thread is redundant.

Government Nonsense

http://middleoftheright.blogspot.com/2015/05/did-anyone-notice.html

How all the "Biker Gang Members" pictured in the articles about the Waco shindig all appear to be wearing brand new patches on their colors?*

I've never seen so many bikers wearing brand new, clean, colors...on vests that have no apparent wear.

I mean, I know a lot of bikers, and a lot that are 1%, and I have never seen anyone with colors that are brand new like that, unless they lost 'em in a fire or an accident. Never the whole gang.

Odd.

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Odd, indeed.

stay safe.

* - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-judge-orders-suspect-held-1million-bond.html

From article linked at the bottom of Skid's post: "8 bikers died at the scene and a 9th in hospital, another 18 bikers were hospitalized, no civilians were injured"

I wonder what definition of the word civilian they are using.

Citizen said:

...

I have a feeling there is something fishy with the government actions. It seems they knew something; otherwise they wouldn't have been seeking restaurant cooperation. And, for darn sure, they wouldn't be blaming the restaurant for "not cooperating."

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Then there is also something fishey with Twin Peaks corporate as well. The fighting/shooting started inside the store and no cops were in side the store.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-has-some-answering-to-do-following-violence/

The store brought this on themselves. They alone could have prevented the violence by exercising their property right to refuse service. They did not and the consequences that have manifested are appropriate in my view. I wonder if the innocent parties hold standing to sue.

skidmark said:

http://middleoftheright.blogspot.com/2015/05/did-anyone-notice.html



Odd, indeed.

stay safe.

* - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-judge-orders-suspect-held-1million-bond.html

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I looked at the photos at the Daily Mail link. That guy is right--lots of new vests. I only saw one vest with wear/rub.

I wonder how these biker gangs are funded.