• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

What would you do?

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
I know there has been a lot of talk about roadblocks. Frankly, I haven't been able to keep up with the legality of it all. All I know is that I just read an article about 'no refusal' roadblocks being set up in my state, potentially my area. I can't see how they can possibly be legal.

Essentially, they are saying that they will set up these roadblocks, and refusal to take their tests will absolutely not be tolerated. Any attempted refusal will result in an on-call judge being called, a warrant being issued for a blood draw, and an on-site nurse drawing your blood without your consent or cooperation. So not only do they need no PC or RAS to stop you, or force you to take a test, but they can now actually issue warrants without any suspicion of a crime being committed, and force you to undergo medical procedures in order to literally fish in the blood of innocent American's for evidence to use against them.
 

Super6O

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
64
Location
Goddard, KS
I saw no tolerance weekend signs in DFW. Sounds like an overstep to me but I know very little about Texas law.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I know there has been a lot of talk about roadblocks. Frankly, I haven't been able to keep up with the legality of it all. All I know is that I just read an article about 'no refusal' roadblocks being set up in my state, potentially my area. I can't see how they can possibly be legal.

Essentially, they are saying that they will set up these roadblocks, and refusal to take their tests will absolutely not be tolerated. Any attempted refusal will result in an on-call judge being called, a warrant being issued for a blood draw, and an on-site nurse drawing your blood without your consent or cooperation. So not only do they need no PC or RAS to stop you, or force you to take a test, but they can now actually issue warrants without any suspicion of a crime being committed, and force you to undergo medical procedures in order to literally fish in the blood of innocent American's for evidence to use against them.

I'd look into the report, first. Who said what exactly--that sort of thing. First find out if there are wild exaggerations. Or, some idiot who doesn't know the law writing the story.

If it looks legit, then call the ACLU to put a stop to it. A nice court injunction would do the trick. Followed up by ridicule of the co-conspirators in the press. Also, you could write the various driver advocacy groups in your area. AAA. Those sorts of folks.
 
Last edited:

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
I'd look into the report, first. Who said what exactly--that sort of thing. First find out if there are wild exaggerations. Or, some idiot who doesn't know the law writing the story.

If it looks legit, then call the ACLU to put a stop to it. A nice court injunction would do the trick. Followed up by ridicule of the co-conspirators in the press. Also, you could write the various driver advocacy groups in your area. AAA. Those sorts of folks.

This is the article I'm reading... Check out the quote by the Tarrant County DA... http://keranews.org/post/hoping-cra...-county-launches-another-no-refusal-operation

“If you don’t consent to giving a sample of breath or blood, a search warrant will be obtained and one will be taken from you anyways," says Richard Alpert with the Tarrant County District Attorney's office. “And the program’s designed to help deter people from testing us on that point and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated."

How interesting that the "and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated" is just sort of tacked on to the end of a "we will have our way with you, *not sure why this word isn't filtered*" type statement. We'll get our sample anyway.

The paragraph after that quote mentions the nurses being handy to draw blood.

To be honest, I'm pretty upset about this.

Based on the content of the article, do you think I should contact the organizations you mentioned?

Edit: I messed up on the blood draw and warrant correlation. The article would seem to suggest that a warrant might be made for a breath test or a blood draw, not necessarily a blood draw automatically.
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Often the battle is not on the side of the road but in the courthouse. At least for the moment.

Have at least one audio recorder running when you leave the house. "One is none, two is one" is worth considering, as is additional video recording capability. For under $100 you can outfit yourself quite nicely.

stay safe.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
This is the article I'm reading... Check out the quote by the Tarrant County DA... http://keranews.org/post/hoping-cra...-county-launches-another-no-refusal-operation

“If you don’t consent to giving a sample of breath or blood, a search warrant will be obtained and one will be taken from you anyways," says Richard Alpert with the Tarrant County District Attorney's office. “And the program’s designed to help deter people from testing us on that point and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated."

How interesting that the "and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated" is just sort of tacked on to the end of a "we will have our way with you, *not sure why this word isn't filtered*" type statement. We'll get our sample anyway.

The paragraph after that quote mentions the nurses being handy to draw blood.

To be honest, I'm pretty upset about this.

Based on the content of the article, do you think I should contact the organizations you mentioned?

Edit: I messed up on the blood draw and warrant correlation. The article would seem to suggest that a warrant might be made for a breath test or a blood draw, not necessarily a blood draw automatically.

Good point. Its not really consensual if a refusal results in a warrant.

Now, what kind of magistrate is going to accept a refusal (exercising a right) as probable cause to issue a warrant?

It just doesn't add up.
 
Last edited:

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
People have died (embolism) from blood draws. Nurses are the worst phlebotomists I've ever encountered.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
JT, are we to believe the cops believe their own propaganda? Going to prison, having their licenses confiscated, KILLING PEOPLE with their cars has not been a deterrent to DUI. It's not like they're a brain-trust or able to understand consequences.

These stops are just to justify their own 'over-entitlement'. Follow the money - are they getting kick-backs from the Feds?
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I deferred my comment, on what I would do, from earlier, while the thread was still focussed, until now when it has expanded a bit to more general 4A abuses.

What I did is move away from population centers.

An interesting map would correlate population density with rights violation density, perhaps people per square mile with rights violations per 100,000.

My county does not have 30,000 souls and my township has half the population density of the county and zero notable or reportable crime (primarily under-age drinking with an occasional fist-fight). We have an OIC and a patrolman resident, half of whom are particularly unpleasant and commonly shunned.
Rights abuses at the hands of state agents know no bounds, or boundaries. But, they do tend to puddle together in certain locations.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
JT, are we to believe the cops believe their own propaganda? Going to prison, having their licenses confiscated, KILLING PEOPLE with their cars has not been a deterrent to DUI. It's not like they're a brain-trust or able to understand consequences.

These stops are just to justify their own 'over-entitlement'. Follow the money - are they getting kick-backs from the Feds?

Nearly every article I've read lately that's talking about a PD setting up a roadblock says that they've received some sort of grant to help pay for it. A few hundred thousand for a department to do a a few nights of roadblocking? Yeah, that sounds like some people are getting some pretty hefty Christmans/newyears bonuses.

I wonder if that money comes with instructions, and that's part of the problem that people have at the roadblocks.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
People have died (embolism) from blood draws. Nurses are the worst phlebotomists I've ever encountered.

This is Truth!! I once had a "nurse" draw blood. The syringe fell apart, leaving blood squirting out of the needle while she scrambled on the floor to collect the other pieces

...... "One is none, two is one" is worth considering, as is additional video recording capability......

This is Truth!
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
If this is federally funded then it is not about safety, it is about normalizing road blocks to the public. DUI arrest should be made on solid police work, not lazy Nazi tactics such as this. If a officer knows what they are doing they can make several DUI arrests a night without invading rights, and acting like goons.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Good point. Its not really consensual if a refusal results in a warrant.

Now, what kind of magistrate is going to accept a refusal (exercising a right) as probable cause to issue a warrant?

It just doesn't add up.

Hi Citizen

The traffic court judge will issue the warrant... They are all in this together..

The probable cause is the citizens refusal, hence, if you have nothing to hide why Refuse... that is the mentality of the tyrants conducting these nazi roadblocks...

I would suggest doing this when trapped in a roadblock. Stay in the vehicle..

1- do not show your DL or owners registration.( by doing so you are consenting to the roadblock)..
2- Inform the Nazi tyrant that you do not consent to being detained.
3- Ask if your free to be on your way. If no,
4- Request counsel.
5- Remain silent.

I have had positive results with my approach however yours may very well vary. One can never predict with certainty how a tyrant will act when his/her authority is challenged.

PLEASE DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE...

My .02

Best regards

CCJ
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
If this is federally funded then it is not about safety, it is about normalizing road blocks to the public. DUI arrest should be made on solid police work, not lazy Nazi tactics such as this. If a officer knows what they are doing they can make several DUI arrests a night without invading rights, and acting like goons.

Almost all are federally funded ... pull over and start your FOIA requests !! Hundreds at one roadblock ...
 

Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
If this is federally funded then it is not about safety, it is about normalizing road blocks to the public. DUI arrest should be made on solid police work, not lazy Nazi tactics such as this. If a officer knows what they are doing they can make several DUI arrests a night without invading rights, and acting like goons.

Here's an example of NHTSA funding checkpoints:

http://safetrec.berkeley.edu/content/2013-2014-sobriety-checkpoint-grant-program

"For Combination DUI/DL Checkpoints, departments should: 1) inform the public (via the press release) that driver licenses will be checked and 2) conduct DUI/DL checkpoint operations with signs (reading, “DUI/Driver License Checkpoint Ahead”)."

Holy moly. Some checkpoints are to check drivers licenses, meaning they run you for warrants, etc.
You stop for a checkpoint and end up in jail for "failure to appear" at collection agency's small claims court attempt to collect on a medical debt your insurance should have covered but dodged.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Here's an example of NHTSA funding checkpoints:

http://safetrec.berkeley.edu/content/2013-2014-sobriety-checkpoint-grant-program

"For Combination DUI/DL Checkpoints, departments should: 1) inform the public (via the press release) that driver licenses will be checked and 2) conduct DUI/DL checkpoint operations with signs (reading, “DUI/Driver License Checkpoint Ahead”)."

Holy moly. Some checkpoints are to check drivers licenses, meaning they run you for warrants, etc.
You stop for a checkpoint and end up in jail for "failure to appear" at collection agency's small claims court attempt to collect on a medical debt your insurance should have covered but dodged.

Being forced to hand over a form of ID in that instance sounds like a forced violation of the 5th.
 
Top