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Experiences @ Key Arena?
- Thread starter Metalhead47
- Start date
jt59
Regular Member
From my trip to Key Arena, Feb 2011
I went to the Clapton concert and went through the same questions posted here....I cc'd in the end, but chased down the head of security...this was my post and outcome back then...maybe it will help, but don't know if the staff are the same...
Chased down the answer
The part of the story that didn't get told, was the conversation I had with an unknown security officer at Key Arena....he got pretty hostile when I asked him about the policy, that I was confused since what he was telling me was inconsistent with the information on the website and his indication that no weapons were allowed period, and that I would be thrown out if found with one....and then went on to (incorrectly) rationalize his position by stating that all Seattle City owned public building were exempt, etc. etc, and that since he was a retired SPDO, that I should just accept that.
So, I am waiting for a phone call with Edi Birk, the Key Center, manager, but in the meantime spoke with "Lt. Tony Lucero", head of Seattle Center Security for Key Center.
He advised me that his officer, came immediately to him and advised that he was "less professional than he should have been" with a caller and to expect a my call.
He also said that he did not advise me correctly on their policy and availabilty of lock boxes.
So, Here's the deal:
Lt. Lucero was very professional and supportive of gun rights. He indicated that Seattle is pretty weird right now and that we go from 0 to 60 with the 3 inch knives and the rest of the prohibited weapons list, straight to forcing people the only option of carrying a gun for self protection and that the Mayor, depending on some court case in Kitsap, has implemented the policy that recognizes the state pre-emption, but in their use contracts with promoters of Key Arena (and others), require that they not allow firearms at their event....A clever means to get around the law until challenged....but I digress.
He said that they have firearms lockers in his office and the procedure is:
Advise the ticket taker (at the door) that you need to "check" a firearm with security.
Security will escort you to the office where they will have you put your (loaded) firearm in a box.
They do not clear the firearm when it is put away and there is only 1 key, so don't lose it.
They will take basic information of name, address and phone, but after your gone, so is the info...they don't keep it.
......they have had issues in the past with people at events, forgetting their property after too much adult beverage, but after the event you can return, pick up you firearm, stick it in the holster and head home.
I talked with Edi Birk and asked her to update and upgrade the information on the website regarding weapons to include the lock box reference and procedures.
.....or just CC, as they don't body check males, but did a purse check on my wife.
I went to the Clapton concert and went through the same questions posted here....I cc'd in the end, but chased down the head of security...this was my post and outcome back then...maybe it will help, but don't know if the staff are the same...
Chased down the answer
The part of the story that didn't get told, was the conversation I had with an unknown security officer at Key Arena....he got pretty hostile when I asked him about the policy, that I was confused since what he was telling me was inconsistent with the information on the website and his indication that no weapons were allowed period, and that I would be thrown out if found with one....and then went on to (incorrectly) rationalize his position by stating that all Seattle City owned public building were exempt, etc. etc, and that since he was a retired SPDO, that I should just accept that.
So, I am waiting for a phone call with Edi Birk, the Key Center, manager, but in the meantime spoke with "Lt. Tony Lucero", head of Seattle Center Security for Key Center.
He advised me that his officer, came immediately to him and advised that he was "less professional than he should have been" with a caller and to expect a my call.
He also said that he did not advise me correctly on their policy and availabilty of lock boxes.
So, Here's the deal:
Lt. Lucero was very professional and supportive of gun rights. He indicated that Seattle is pretty weird right now and that we go from 0 to 60 with the 3 inch knives and the rest of the prohibited weapons list, straight to forcing people the only option of carrying a gun for self protection and that the Mayor, depending on some court case in Kitsap, has implemented the policy that recognizes the state pre-emption, but in their use contracts with promoters of Key Arena (and others), require that they not allow firearms at their event....A clever means to get around the law until challenged....but I digress.
He said that they have firearms lockers in his office and the procedure is:
Advise the ticket taker (at the door) that you need to "check" a firearm with security.
Security will escort you to the office where they will have you put your (loaded) firearm in a box.
They do not clear the firearm when it is put away and there is only 1 key, so don't lose it.
They will take basic information of name, address and phone, but after your gone, so is the info...they don't keep it.
......they have had issues in the past with people at events, forgetting their property after too much adult beverage, but after the event you can return, pick up you firearm, stick it in the holster and head home.
I talked with Edi Birk and asked her to update and upgrade the information on the website regarding weapons to include the lock box reference and procedures.
.....or just CC, as they don't body check males, but did a purse check on my wife.
Last edited:
Flopsweat
Regular Member
rapgood
Regular Member
I think that their policy is fine. They ASK you to either check the weapon or, in the alternative, they ASK you to notify the SPD Sgt. of "your seat location so he is aware of the location of a weapon in the seating area." If you disagree with their policy, the way I read it, you have the legal right to decline their request and not say anything. Personally, I never talk to cops (unless I'm cross-examining them) other than to ask them if I'm free to go. Why would you want to be the designated felon?
Metalhead47
Regular Member
If it's a REQUEST (not a requirement) it should be stated as so. Both the website and the frequent announcements while we were waiting in line specifically said firearms were PROHIBITED, not "we ask..."
rapgood
Regular Member
I agree that it should be stated as such on the signs (or not addressed, at all). That said, the response letter states that it is a request, only. Preemption knocks it out as a lawful mandate. Treat it like a Chan case and send the Seattle City Attorney a letter asking that the city comply with the law. Until they're called out on the issue, they will likely attempt to keep pushing it as a requirement.
Metalhead47
Regular Member
IS it a preemption issue? I thot that since they were leasing the premises, they can legally get away with it (or at least the lessee can).
END_THE_FED
Regular Member
That is the current way of things but it has yet to be challenged in court.
I am of the opinion that when a private party leases public property for an event they do not have the full private property rights that one has leasing private property. If the operator of an event wishes to restrict firearms then they should hold said event on private lands.
I believe that preemption still applies.
Otherwise all Seattle or any other anti-2A city would need to do to ban guns and get around preemption would be to simply give a private non-profit group a 99 year lease on all public parks, stadiums, arenas, campgrounds etc. The city could have as a condition of the lease that guns are banned.
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Metalhead47
Regular Member
Wasn't that actually decided in a state SC case tho? Think it was only a few years ago.
rapgood
Regular Member
Essentially, that's what Pacific Northwest Shooting Park Assoc. v. City of Sequim, (2006) says. However, there is a school of supported by at least a couple of cases, as I recall (can look them up if you want cite) that imply the contrary. The more "open to the public" a venue becomes, the more it becomes subject to state law and the constitution (I posted a cite to that on another thread).
Their web site states that "The following is a list of items that are prohibited at all KeyArena events. ... Fireworks, firearms, or other weapons (including all knives, mace or pepper spray)." The way I read it, the fact that it specifies "all" means that, at least facially, they intend their rules to apply even to city-sponsored events. That is preempted.
Considering the possibility of a lessee's "rule" prohibiting firearms, checking the "terms" on the back of my ticket to Bob Dylan's concert, there is no reference to firearms and no reference to any location of additional rules (physical or online). Once I offer to purchase a ticket to an event, they accept my offer, and I pay them consideration (the ticket cost), the contract is complete and on the terms agreed to by the parties. Although UCC-1 (the sale of goods, only) terms may be "borrowed" for general contracts, UCC-1 does not restrict firearms, so that cannot be "borrowed." I argue that the contract is enforceable and does not address firearms. The Washington Supes likely would not agree.
The conflicts found in PNSPA relate to the relationship between PNSPA and the city of Sequim. That is distinguishable from the relationship between a venue (private, or otherwise) and a member of the general public. Apparently, KeyArena acknowledges this to a degree such that Edie does not state in the response letter that there is a full-blown prohibition. Perhaps the relationship between the venue and the general public will need to be tested in court since the holding in PNSPA specifically dodged that bullet on technical grounds.
END_THE_FED
Regular Member
Not to my knowledge, but I could be wrong.
Metalhead47
Regular Member
Cool, now I understand. Thank you.
See above
Knew it involved a city with a funny spelled name.