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Cops Kill Man In Wal-Mart Carrying An Air Rifle That He Might Have Planned To Buy
- Thread starter waskel
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Maverick9
Regular Member
No patience on the part of the cops. Just like the Sterling, Va shooting in Costco, they didn't even clear the store first. It resulted, according to reports in the death of two innocents.
Ours sells them for $47.88. My 6 year old wants me to get her that instead of a pink Red Ryder.
I can see where they thought it might be real but then again I know how some cops purposely behave when they see an empty holster so I can also see it being a case of "PUT..." bangbangbang "DOWN..." bangbangbangbangbang "THE.." bang "GUN..." bangbang "GET ON THE GROUND!"
And they killed some poor lady who was running to safety in the process. Throw the damn book at them for violation of rule 3...be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
I've never seen the SCAR version. Just the M4 version. I like, but the kid is still getting the Red Ryder. More guns have leaf type sights and I think it's easier for a kid to shoot.
Edit: I read Ohio and knew I'd see a mention of the NAACP. Pathetic. Nothing to do with race, probably more a god complex issue.
I can see where they thought it might be real but then again I know how some cops purposely behave when they see an empty holster so I can also see it being a case of "PUT..." bangbangbang "DOWN..." bangbangbangbangbang "THE.." bang "GUN..." bangbang "GET ON THE GROUND!"
And they killed some poor lady who was running to safety in the process. Throw the damn book at them for violation of rule 3...be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
I've never seen the SCAR version. Just the M4 version. I like, but the kid is still getting the Red Ryder. More guns have leaf type sights and I think it's easier for a kid to shoot.
Edit: I read Ohio and knew I'd see a mention of the NAACP. Pathetic. Nothing to do with race, probably more a god complex issue.
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Maverick9
Regular Member
I think there's more to the story...
Did the guy bring the gun into the store? Usually those things are in some kind of packaging. If so, maybe he planned to use it to rob the store?
NEVERTHELESS, we need to train cops better. It's NOT ok to go into a crowded store, when no shots have been fired and immediately start killing people. Cops have time, cover, can call in back up, should be clearing the store. They could use a bullhorn from distance, wait it out. Here we see an innocent person killed. How is this a justifiable response. Bullets don't just all hit the intended target, either.
Hope more comes out.
Did the guy bring the gun into the store? Usually those things are in some kind of packaging. If so, maybe he planned to use it to rob the store?
NEVERTHELESS, we need to train cops better. It's NOT ok to go into a crowded store, when no shots have been fired and immediately start killing people. Cops have time, cover, can call in back up, should be clearing the store. They could use a bullhorn from distance, wait it out. Here we see an innocent person killed. How is this a justifiable response. Bullets don't just all hit the intended target, either.
Hope more comes out.
Maverick9
Regular Member
Thinking about this more, why aren't there rules of engagement that the PD has to follow. Levels of threat, shots fired or not, imminent danger, evidence of a crime.
Here there was only 'failure to comply immediately with a lawful order', and that's probably a misdemeanor normally not a death sentence. The main job should be keeping things from escalating, clearing the store, establishing a perimeter, defining the threat level. None of that was done, and it appears from at least some witnesses he was not pointing at people and he had almost no time from the order to the time he was shot.
Here there was only 'failure to comply immediately with a lawful order', and that's probably a misdemeanor normally not a death sentence. The main job should be keeping things from escalating, clearing the store, establishing a perimeter, defining the threat level. None of that was done, and it appears from at least some witnesses he was not pointing at people and he had almost no time from the order to the time he was shot.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Need more answers, where were his hands on the air rifle. If not on the trigger group and not pointed at anybody there was no reason to shoot. If he was pointing the gun with hands ready to fire they are justified. Just like the old man shot with a cane, just because is not a good reason to kill people. The supervisors should NEVER comment and claim a shooting is justified until completely investigated.
Whether the officers were justified is up in the air, the Chief of Police screwed the pooch with his comment.
Whether the officers were justified is up in the air, the Chief of Police screwed the pooch with his comment.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Pavlovian response...genetics.
SovereignAxe
Regular Member
The great thing about this incident is that Wal-Mart has, what I'm assuming are, hi-def cameras covering just about every inch of the store. Finding out what happened should be pretty easy.
...likely a heart attack or stroke...autopsy planned:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...-shot-by-police-in-wal-mart-store-was-waving/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/source-walmart-gunman-was-carrying-toy-rifle/
...if the cameras tell the story, and he WASN'T pointing it at children...the 911 caller shares some blame...this incident should make those who've been calling in on OCers think a bit...
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
This cannot be blamed on the cops, while it may have pushed her death a tad sooner, healthy people do not die from short term stress.
If I were you, I would continue to OC there if you must go back. This situation is exactly what OC is for IMO.
Without us being able to see any security footage, lets just say the police shot the man without justification or allowing him any time to comply with their orders, such as "drop the weapon" or "get down", would not them shooting, thus creating the stressful situation be their fault? After all, if it turns out the man was not in any way doing anything illegal with the toy gun, such as pointing it at people or doing anything else threatening, then it would mean the police shot him without justification, which further scared others in the area which may have resulted in the stress which killed this woman.
Of course, this is assuming she died after they fired the shots. I'm not entirely of the exact sequence of events (did she die running out as the police entered, or running out after the police opened fire?).
Just my thoughts.
Makarov
Regular Member
This entire event was over reacted. It appears the person who called also was shouting "man with a gun" forcing everyone into a panic. Other people who past by him didn't have issues. He was also in the store for a long while being observed by the couple that called.*
Here's my questions...
Is the rifle sold at Walmart in an box?
If sold in a box, why did he remove it?
When the call came in the dispatcher should have asked more questions about the behavior of the man?
Cops came in guns drawn after hearing no shots?
Cops did not observe the suspect from a distance to determine course of action?
Cops gave no ample time for the suspect to drop the gun after barking out commands?
The officer involved was also involved in a deadly shooting back in 2010. That shooting was declared justified.
I open carry with my wife all time at this Walmart and have had no problem. And after this incident it makes me very cautious to open carry around this store. We are on pins and needles. ...........
--Rules #6 violation deleted by Moderator--
Here's my questions...
Is the rifle sold at Walmart in an box?
If sold in a box, why did he remove it?
When the call came in the dispatcher should have asked more questions about the behavior of the man?
Cops came in guns drawn after hearing no shots?
Cops did not observe the suspect from a distance to determine course of action?
Cops gave no ample time for the suspect to drop the gun after barking out commands?
The officer involved was also involved in a deadly shooting back in 2010. That shooting was declared justified.
I open carry with my wife all time at this Walmart and have had no problem. And after this incident it makes me very cautious to open carry around this store. We are on pins and needles. ...........
--Rules #6 violation deleted by Moderator--
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...this link from above explains that... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/source-walmart-gunman-was-carrying-toy-rifle/
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I don't know the justification for the shooting, more information needed. What I do know is healthy people, or people in fair health do not just keel over from short term stress or even pain. A person must be on deaths door for that to happen, now it may have speed up what was already happening, heart disease, but you are talking probably no more than a month or so.
I have a weak heart, though not as bad as some and worse than most. My EF after surgery and before DF/pacemaker was implanted was less than 30%. And I didn't die after the surgery even considering I woke up during surgery. Talk about stress having your whole chest split open, tied down, and tubes in your throat so you can't call out for help. Long term stress is a killer, it is one of those factors that increases the production of fat in the blood. Not a doctor but I have had it explained to me enough times by doctors. Lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, stress, weight, eating habits as well as family history bring on heart disease, but this is all long term. One incident of stress did not kill her, she was going to die, IMO her death cannot be blamed on police, even if they unjustly shot the young man.
Where does it explain that?
"According to WHIO, 37-year-old Angela D. Williams was at the store at the time and collapsed while running away from the situation. She was taken to the hospital and pronounced dead. The coroner's office reported that Williams had a medical condition which was the cause of her death. The woman's coworkers told the station she was to be married on Saturday."
"...while running away from the situation."
Which situation? The man with the toy gun, or the police shooting the man with the toy gun?
You very well might be right, however if it does turn out that the shooting was not justified, and they created a stressful situation for the bystanders, I believe the family members / fiance could have a case. No idea if it would win, of course. I'd like to think they'd win - maybe it would make police more accountable for their actions for when things like this happen. Of course this is only assuming that they just ran up and shot the man. If he was in fact pointing the toy gun at people and otherwise acting threatening, I would definitely say the police response is justified.
No way to know until more information / video is released. It's just a shame that there's other people who get injured / killed as a result of this, especially if it turns out the shooting was unjust. I should say it's MORE of a shame than what it already is.
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