I STAND WITH WALKER RALLY - March 5

Peacekeeper said:

... why not organize a union and bargain for the pay and benefits you deserve? Why should the boss become a gazillionaire on the backs of underpaid under benefited workers.

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And this herein lies the rub of the entire situation. A worker doesn’t DESERVE or is ENTITTLED to anything. A worker gets good pay/benefits by doing a good job and helping to advance the success of the company. Period. If the company (or State) is FORCED to pay high wages/benefits for workers who (as I call them are “empty uniforms”) due to a union, the company ultimately is going to do poorly and fail since it is not getting its expected “return on investment”, i.e. its employees. And yes, you are an investment to a company (or the State).

I work for a privately owned company. I personally know the gentleman who started the company some 45+ years ago. He started it in his garage. I have no doubt he worked 80+ hour weeks for YEARS with no overtime pay, benefits, sub-standard pay and no vacations in order to get his dream off the ground. He was successful and now has more money than I can even imagine. I don’t whine about the fact that he has more money than me or makes more money than me. He took the risk starting the company. With big risk comes big rewards. He’s EARNED it. I’m going to say that again. HE’S EARNED EVERY SINGLE PENNY. I’ve worked for this company for 14 years now. The company has taken very good care of me. I do a good job, grow the company’s bottom line, and in turn the company can afford to grow my bottom line (pay and benefits). Unions over-inflate pay and benefits on the back of someone else’s risk.

If a person doesn't like the pay or benefits they get from the company they work for, that person should quit. Find a company that does pay what they feel they are owed. OR, better yet, use the opportunity that EVERYONE has in this Country to start a business. Take the risk, get the reward. It’s that simple.

I’m not going to deny that unions in the past have greatly contributed to the improvement of the working conditions across this Country. They were created to keep companies from taking advantage of the worker. I understand that. But the coin has been flipped now and it is the unions that now take advantage of the company (and the State). Unions in my opinion are obsolete.

My .02 worth

64impala,
If the State was FORCED to pay wages and benefits ... state union members would be gazillionaires. Unions negociate wages and benefits. Sometimes benefits cost the government less than increasing wages. State and local governments have to pay federal taxes on wages. This is why benefits are in some cases better.

Several family members have started their own businesses. I chose to serve my country and then my state instead.

What do you think is a fair wage?

I earned every penny that I got too. No one here is qualified to judge if someone does not "earn their wage". It is obvious that some people just do not value certain vocations or that they value one vocation much more than the another.

Is a professional football or basketball player worth every penny that they earn? Do they get every penny that they earn each year? No, they defer the payment into the future, so that when they are not playing, they are living off their pre-earned wages. Evidently you didn't read this:
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2...ntribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
or if you did, you don't believe it.

I've said earlier, if you want to get ahead, go to college, get a degree in water and soils management, or whatever, and either work for a private company and get your compensation up front or work for the government and have part of your compensation delayed. It is your choice. Now you want to fault others for their choices?

This budget issue could have been solved by simply saying "Here is the money you have to work with, split it up the way you think is best for your particular locale, situation, etc. If you want less salary and more benefit, then that is your choice. If you want more salary and less benefit, then ok". This is America, I think. When people have severe problems they come together and try to find a solution. Mandates are only acceptable when you agree with the mandate.

In the future, to save on energy and building materials, rooms in all new public buildings will have a maximum height of six feet. If you are taller than six feet, simply stoop or bend over. If you are unable to stoop or bend over, the state will pay for an operation to remove sections of your spine or femur, your choice.

You're still all bent out of shape (no pun intended) over the benefits when the public employees conceded to the changes. Move on!

64Impala said:

And this herein lies the rub of the entire situation. A worker doesn’t DESERVE or is ENTITTLED to anything. A worker gets good pay/benefits by doing a good job and helping to advance the success of the company. Period. If the company (or State) is FORCED to pay high wages/benefits for workers who (as I call them are “empty uniforms”) due to a union, the company ultimately is going to do poorly and fail since it is not getting its expected “return on investment”, i.e. its employees. And yes, you are an investment to a company (or the State).

I work for a privately owned company. I personally know the gentleman who started the company some 45+ years ago. He started it in his garage. I have no doubt he worked 80+ hour weeks for YEARS with no overtime pay, benefits, sub-standard pay and no vacations in order to get his dream off the ground. He was successful and now has more money than I can even imagine. I don’t whine about the fact that he has more money than me or makes more money than me. He took the risk starting the company. With big risk comes big rewards. He’s EARNED it. I’m going to say that again. HE’S EARNED EVERY SINGLE PENNY. I’ve worked for this company for 14 years now. The company has taken very good care of me. I do a good job, grow the company’s bottom line, and in turn the company can afford to grow my bottom line (pay and benefits). Unions over-inflate pay and benefits on the back of someone else’s risk.

If a person doesn't like the pay or benefits they get from the company they work for, that person should quit. Find a company that does pay what they feel they are owed. OR, better yet, use the opportunity that EVERYONE has in this Country to start a business. Take the risk, get the reward. It’s that simple.

I’m not going to deny that unions in the past have greatly contributed to the improvement of the working conditions across this Country. They were created to keep companies from taking advantage of the worker. I understand that. But the coin has been flipped now and it is the unions that now take advantage of the company (and the State). Unions in my opinion are obsolete.

My .02 worth

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+10000000000

i agree with you 100% impalla i was union (private union)once the the thing that chapped me about it was after 6 months of hire some schmuk was making just as much as i do after 6 years of hard work while doing 1/3 less(effort, quality, quantity) work i was doing

change is good

phred said:

I am unhappy that I must pay extra on my utility bill for those that can't or won't.
I am unhappy that I must pay extra on my car insurance for those that don't or won't.
I am unhappy that I must pay extra on my health insurance because of those who can't or won't.
I am unhappy that I must pay extra for my goods because some feel that they can take things without paying for the items.
I am unhappy that the demand for copper and lead has sky-rocketed the price of ammunition.
I am unhappy that gasoline is $3.50/gal (as of 02-28-2011) because of speculation and turmoil on the other side of the world.
I am unhappy that I must pay extra for all my products so that some fat cat can "earn" millions of dollars per year and laugh at those that don't.

We are all unhappy because of certain things. When you buy products, much of what you pay is for the benefit of somebody, public or private. This is life!
But I am not taking out my unhappiness or anger or frustration on any particular group of people.

Pour me another one. It's still early!

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Agreed - that unhappiness had me vote for Walker and others that would make changes. That's what he's doing.

Am I out of touch with reality? It seems to me that Liberal Democrats are all about big government, big spending, and higher taxes, (aka redistribution). When they are asked to give up some of theirs, they turned into rabid dogs. They think buisnesses should be taxed more, because evil buisness owners are all rich, and cheat the employess. Do these public employees have a desk drawer full of uncashed payroll checks to themselves, waiting for more cash flow so they can be cashed? Where do they think jobs come from? They are created by buisness owners.

I am a shareholder of the state of Wisconsin. I am the employer of Public Employees, as is every other resident. If they are good at their job they will be compinsated accordingly, and will not try to hold me hostage. It is funny how the unions will allow the tachers to pay more on their bennefits, and cut pay, but mess with the unions stranglehold on making every teacher pay union dues, and look out. I have read the Constitution many times, and I have never seen the ammendment stating Public Employees have a RIGHT to Collective Bargaining. Wisconsin is broke and needs a whole bunch of work to get it straightened out, and this is a good first step!

Peacekeeper said:

64impala,
If the State was FORCED to pay wages and benefits ... state union members would be gazillionaires. Unions negociate wages and benefits. Sometimes benefits cost the government less than increasing wages. State and local governments have to pay federal taxes on wages. This is why benefits are in some cases better.

Several family members have started their own businesses. I chose to serve my country and then my state instead.

What do you think is a fair wage?

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Peacekeeper - First, thank you for your service.

Obviously there are tons of issues here, pay and benefits are just two of them. In a sense (maybe not in the truest sense of the word, but) the state (or company) is somewhat forced to by the unions to pay the higher pay and benefits. In the case of a company, don’t pay, we strike. What is a company or State supposed to do? I’m not in a position to negotiate a fair wage for people. I believe if you do your job well you should be compensated accordingly (whether or not you are a private or public employee). Both my parents were teachers, so believe me, this whole business hits home for me

What I think people don’t realize, it just how much POWER, unions actually have. I used to work in the automotive industry. This industry is a PRIME example of how much power the unions have. Paying someone turning bolts into a truck frame for eight hours a day, right out of high school, making 50-60K plus benefits plus overtime. NOWHERE in the private industry could you get that without a union. It is unsustainable. Period. I had a four year degree in engineering, plus a couple years experience working 60 hours a week and I was making half that. Again, I don’t begrudge people for making more than me. More power to them. If the system, that provides those individuals that kind of pay and benefits is sustainable, great. I’m happy for them.

In the case of our State and its budget, it’s not sustainable. We are broke. It’s simple mathematics. The unions are getting the State to promise more than they can physically deliver. More money going out than going in. At some point it has to stop. I feel for the people who were promised all this great stuff, and are starting to realize they most likely won’t get it. But they placed their future into the hands of the government and into the hands of the union. The unions can negotiate whatever terms the State (company) will agree to and they are going to get as much as they can, since more money for the workers simply lines the coffers of the union better. The unions loose nothing if the workers they represent don’t get the stuff they were promised. They keep raking in the dough since membership and dues are mandatory. The non-delivery of the promised items or terms become a State or company issue, not a union issue. It’s a win-win for the union. If the State delivers, the union says, “Look what we’ve done for the workers”. If the State fails to deliver, the union rallies everyone together and says “Look what we are doing for the workers, protecting their rights.”

This is getting long winded, but I think we can all agree this is a terribly complicated issue. This can’t be blamed on any one administration. This has been building for 40 or more years. We live in interesting times.

Or do we live in times where the interest has finally caught up to us?

BE CAREFUL EVERYONE ! These ANIMALS will there >>> http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/...chases-and-traps-wisconsin-republican-capitol

As the man was quoted as saying: "I’ve walked through that crowd many times and never really had a problem until now,” he said. “But some of those people looked deranged.”

It only takes one person to turn a crowd into a mob . . .

I will admit that when I was down there, the sheer number of protesters was kind of intimidating. If it would have turned sour, I would have been in deep doo doo. I don't like situations where I feel I have no control over the safety of myself, or friends and family that might be with me.

metalman383 said:

I will admit that when I was down there, the sheer number of protesters was kind of intimidating. If it would have turned sour, I would have been in deep doo doo. I don't like situations where I feel I have no control over the safety of myself, or friends and family that might be with me.

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did you bring a good supply of loaded mags ? I would not even consider going there unarmed.

metalman383 said:

I will admit that when I was down there, the sheer number of protesters was kind of intimidating. If it would have turned sour, I would have been in deep doo doo. I don't like situations where I feel I have no control over the safety of myself, or friends and family that might be with me.

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I suppose didn't make you feel any better trying to start trouble by getting in thier face with my Walker sign.

My mother, a retired school social worker, tried to tell me that this union rally was for "the common man."

1) She retired when she was 55 with full beni's from the tax-payer fed system. If there's any money left in SS I won't be able to retire until 65 - maybe 70 in 32 years.

2) Apparently all liberals fight for the common man, unless you work as a common man in a private industry, then you're evil. So if I make 50k a year on the tax payer dime, I'm a flipping hero. If I make 50k a year through simple economics such as supply/demand/damn hard work, I'm an evil person with too much of my own money to know any better.

I think most liberals were deprived of oxygen at birth - but that's just my personal opinion.

anmut said:

1) She retired when she was 55 with full beni's from the tax-payer fed system.

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Um, to the best of my knowledge, AND WRS/ETF handbook (p.7) - says that full benefits do not occur until age 57 AND 30+ years of contribution for the "General" category. She may have been able to retire at age 55, but certainly not at "full" benefits. Protective services may retire at age 50, but are not eligible for "full" until age 53 AND 25 +yrs of service/contribution.

phred said:

Um, to the best of my knowledge, AND WRS/ETF handbook (p.7) - says that full benefits do not occur until age 57 AND 30+ years of contribution for the "General" category. She may have been able to retire at age 55, but certainly not at "full" benefits. Protective services may retire at age 50, but are not eligible for "full" until age 53 AND 25 +yrs of service/contribution.

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Well she's not working now and has all of her benefits, soooo I don't know what to tell you. Maybe one of nice union people gave her a break?

anmut said:

Well she's not working now and has all of her benefits, soooo I don't know what to tell you. Maybe one of nice union people gave her a break?

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Real simple here - IT IS NOT UP TO THE UNION PEOPLE. The Wisconsin Retirement System / Employee Trust Fund is NOT in any way controlled or influenced by union people.

anmut said:

My mother, a retired school social worker, tried to tell me that this union rally was for "the common man."

1) She retired when she was 55 with full beni's from the tax-payer fed system. If there's any money left in SS I won't be able to retire until 65 - maybe 70 in 32 years.

2) Apparently all liberals fight for the common man, unless you work as a common man in a private industry, then you're evil. So if I make 50k a year on the tax payer dime, I'm a flipping hero. If I make 50k a year through simple economics such as supply/demand/damn hard work, I'm an evil person with too much of my own money to know any better.

I think most liberals were deprived of oxygen at birth - but that's just my personal opinion.

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I hear you and agree. My whole family is full of leftists and I can't take it anymore.

HandyHamlet said:

Or do we live in times where the interest has finally caught up to us?

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Winner.

anmut said:

My mother, a retired school social worker, tried to tell me that this union rally was for "the common man."

1) She retired when she was 55 with full beni's from the tax-payer fed system. If there's any money left in SS I won't be able to retire until 65 - maybe 70 in 32 years.

2) Apparently all liberals fight for the common man, unless you work as a common man in a private industry, then you're evil. So if I make 50k a year on the tax payer dime, I'm a flipping hero. If I make 50k a year through simple economics such as supply/demand/damn hard work, I'm an evil person with too much of my own money to know any better.

I think most liberals were deprived of oxygen at birth - but that's just my personal opinion.

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This ^ I agree