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Headline - "Open Carry:Group armed with long guns stroll weekly through Carytown"

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
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Richmond, Virginia, USA
Very nicely said. Reminds one of the Pastor Niemöller poem which starts "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--Because I was not a Socialist."

Seems about right. Saw this cartoon on Spitzer's facebook page:

10438147_10202914575480351_1093331959679204502_n.jpg
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Have you ever tried to load a clip into a Mosin?

Or shot one without ear protection?

Did Russian shoulders use ear protection during WW2? Did GI's wear ear protection?

I don't think he was carrying to shoot while walking, and he was also carrying a loaded pistol. Do you wear ear protection while carrying a handgun? What caliber is your handgun? Do you have a time out sign for the bad guy to put ear protection on?
 

SovereignAxe

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Elizabethton, TN
Did Russian shoulders use ear protection during WW2? Did GI's wear ear protection?

I don't think he was carrying to shoot while walking, and he was also carrying a loaded pistol. Do you wear ear protection while carrying a handgun? What caliber is your handgun? Do you have a time out sign for the bad guy to put ear protection on?

If he isn't carrying to shoot while walking, then what's the point? I carry a 9mm which, while still being pretty loud itself, is a far cry from the report from 7.62x54mmR. And just because it was ok for Russian conscripts to lose their hearing in battle 60-120 years ago, doesn't mean it's a good idea now.

And since you danced around my first question, I'll point out that not only is a bolt gun impractical for self defense use, but the rimmed cases of that caliber make reloading...an acquired skill. If you're using a clip to load it it requires a stiff thumb and very careful handling of the clip so as to keep from installing the rounds at the wrong angle-which would jam the rifle.
 

Grapeshot

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Doubt that self-defense w/long gun is the primary point. Believe the principal reason is to increase visibility - attract attention. To that degree, there is no reason to carry loaded LG.
 

WalkingWolf

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If he isn't carrying to shoot while walking, then what's the point? I carry a 9mm which, while still being pretty loud itself, is a far cry from the report from 7.62x54mmR. And just because it was ok for Russian conscripts to lose their hearing in battle 60-120 years ago, doesn't mean it's a good idea now.

And since you danced around my first question, I'll point out that not only is a bolt gun impractical for self defense use, but the rimmed cases of that caliber make reloading...an acquired skill. If you're using a clip to load it it requires a stiff thumb and very careful handling of the clip so as to keep from installing the rounds at the wrong angle-which would jam the rifle.

Sooooo how much shooting do you do while out in the general public? What are your targets in the grocery store? Canned goods? Milk? Beer?
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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northern wis
.
I'll point out that not only is a bolt gun impractical for self defense use, but the rimmed cases of that caliber make reloading...an acquired skill. If you're using a clip to load it it requires a stiff thumb and very careful handling of the clip so as to keep from installing the rounds at the wrong angle-which would jam the rifle.

Really a bolt gun is impractical for self defense I guess it all depends on the defensive use situation. For lots of fast multiple targets yes a good semi auto works better. But I really don't think you want a good bolt gunner shooting at you.

Really loading for a rimmed case is that different from a rimless case. I guess I well have to remember to tell myself that.

I load for several rimmed rifle calibers size and de-prime but in new primer and powder seat bullet and shoot. Just the same steps as for a rim less case. Depending on the rifle a crimp could also be needed.

But then making good reloads is a acquired skill.
 
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WalkingWolf

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The three of them are not walking to get in a firefight, and all three are carrying loaded handguns. But let's put that aside and take a look at the tactical advantage of a three man fireteam, They only missing a machine gunner and an assistant gunner, for five man team. Anybody would have to be a fool thinking they could take these three out because one of them had a mosin nagant.
 

SovereignAxe

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Elizabethton, TN
I'm not going to keep arguing if you're going to dance around all of my questions. I'll just assume the answer is no to each and call it a day. Thanks.
 

WalkingWolf

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Have you ever tried to load a clip into a Mosin?

Or shot one without ear protection?

Since you keep going on about this, as if it is important. The answer is YES! I hunt with a 44 which has the shorter barrel. And I have a box of stripper clips that work just fine. I can load my mosin with a stripper clip faster than I can my 1873, so I guess now you are going to put that down also. I can also load the mosin faster than my 94 Marlin, a rifle I have full faith in for self defense. For years lever actions were carried in racks of country police officers vehicles. I carried a Marlin 336 as a conservation officer before I became a university officer. It is also common to see police carrying Rem 700 which are a bolt action with as much recoil and noise as a Mosin. So what is the purpose of them carrying a 700? I prefered the lever to the bolt, even though the bolt is a more potent cartridge. But it has nothing to do with tactical, I just grew up shooting levers and have stayed with them. If I was to carry a LGOC I would carry my Marlin and tell any Fudd to bugger off.

What it boils down to is it is stupid to try to control how others exercise their rights, it is downright foolish.
 
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MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
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Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Doubt that self-defense w/long gun is the primary point. Believe the principal reason is to increase visibility - attract attention. To that degree, there is no reason to carry loaded LG.

comments like this are referred to as BFOs (blinding flash of the obvious). no worries, they got a good bit of support too.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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My 16 inch 7mm-08 is a lot louder then a 29 inch Mosin the carbine version is plenty loud but a full size Mosin rifle is less loud then any shorter barreled rifle shooting a cartridge of the some dia and approximately same powder capacity.

My 4 inch ported 41 mag is very lound I try and never shoot that with out hearing protectors it really rings your ears.

I think SovereignAxe just needs a bit more experience with different arms that is all.

When he has had a chance to shoot several hundred different rifles and calibers his experience will reflect in his answers.
 

Blk97F150

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Joined
Dec 21, 2010
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Location
Virginia
And since you danced around my first question, I'll point out that not only is a bolt gun impractical for self defense use, but the rimmed cases of that caliber make reloading...an acquired skill. If you're using a clip to load it it requires a stiff thumb and very careful handling of the clip so as to keep from installing the rounds at the wrong angle-which would jam the rifle.

I've heard very similar arguments about carrying a revolver, carrying a derringer, carrying.... just about everything else. Its 'impractical', its 'too hard to load', it 'doesn't have enough rounds', it 'weighs too much', Its 'too large', its 'too small to control',.... the list goes on and on.

In the end though, its nice that each gun owner has all those choices... and that they can make on their own decisions on what suits them the best.
 

DrMark

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Jan 13, 2007
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Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
http://www.roanoke.com/news/virgini...cle_d75aa509-30c5-549a-8f67-6a502c3a9992.html

SNIP

. . .

One online supporter offered a bit of advice: “Doesn’t it make more sense to stick to handguns?” he wrote.

“Don’t get me wrong, I love semi-auto rifles as much as anyone, but for open-carry demonstrations, handguns seem less likely to disturb those with more delicate sensibilities. This issue is really one of public relations, and it’s in our best interest to seem as non-threatening as possible.”

Even the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a politically active gun owners’ advocacy group, has kept its distance, saying only that it is neutral on long gun carrying as long as it is legal and safe.

In a recent newsletter, defense league President Philip Van Cleave said carrying a rifle presents certain logistical challenges that are not present with the legal carrying of holstered handguns, such as there not being “drop” safeties on many long guns.

“Standing up and sitting down will probably require you to actually handle the long gun [as in hold it in your hands]. Doing so could almost border on brandishing and is simply not as safe as not handling the long gun in public,” Van Cleave writes.

. . .

. . .
 

Thundar

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Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Quote from VCDL President is weak. Something along the lines of "we fully support the right of people to bear arms" would in my humble opinion, be appropriate for a gun rights group.

Remember, those under 18 cannot bear handguns, only long guns.

Live free or die,
Thundar
 
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B

Bikenut

Guest
A rant:

The rabid anti gunner says:

"No one should be able to carry guns because I don't like it!"

followed by a myriad of excuses to justify the desire to be in control of what other people do.

The gun owning anti gunner lite says:

"You shouldn't carry a gun like that, or carry a gun in a place like that, or carry that particular gun, or dress like that while carrying a gun, because I don't like it."

followed by a myriad of excuses to justify the desire to be in control of what other people do.

I am continually dismayed to see so many folks who say they support the right to bear arms come up with so many excuses to justify the fact that they really only support bearing arms in ways they personally think are "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" never understanding that perspective is the exact same perspective of the anti gunner who thinks bearing arms itself is "unreasonable", "inappropriate", and "unacceptable". The only difference is the severity of degree of the restrictions upon the right to bear arms desired.

Neither the rabid anti gunner nor the gun owning anti gunner lite care about the right to bear arms... but both share the desire to be in control of what is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" ....... for other people to be allowed to do. Please note the word "allowed" because the perspective that people should only be "allowed" when it comes to rights exposes the desire to be the one who is in charge of the "allowing".

End rant.
 

WalkingWolf

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Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Quote from VCDL President is weak. Something along the lines of "we fully support the right of people to bear arms" would in my humble opinion, be appropriate for a gun rights group.

Remember, those under 18 cannot bear handguns, only long guns.

Live free or die,
Thundar

I might be wrong, but it was my understanding that in VA they could purchase handguns privately and carry openly.

A rant:

The rabid anti gunner says:

"No one should be able to carry guns because I don't like it!"

followed by a myriad of excuses to justify the desire to be in control of what other people do.

The gun owning anti gunner lite says:

"You shouldn't carry a gun like that, or carry a gun in a place like that, or carry that particular gun, or dress like that while carrying a gun, because I don't like it."

followed by a myriad of excuses to justify the desire to be in control of what other people do.

I am continually dismayed to see so many folks who say they support the right to bear arms come up with so many excuses to justify the fact that they really only support bearing arms in ways they personally think are "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" never understanding that perspective is the exact same perspective of the anti gunner who thinks bearing arms itself is "unreasonable", "inappropriate", and "unacceptable". The only difference is the severity of degree of the restrictions upon the right to bear arms desired.

Neither the rabid anti gunner nor the gun owning anti gunner lite care about the right to bear arms... but both share the desire to be in control of what is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" ....... for other people to be allowed to do. Please note the word "allowed" because the perspective that people should only be "allowed" when it comes to rights exposes the desire to be the one who is in charge of the "allowing".

End rant.

The only semi logical way to explain their behavior is they think the antis will leave them alone if they sacrifice another group of gun owners. Or it could be they are just nuts.
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Thundar

--snipped--
Remember, those under 18 cannot bear handguns, only long guns.

Live free or die,
Thundar
I might be wrong, but it was my understanding that in VA they could purchase handguns privately and carry openly.
--snipped--

That is my read also WW see the Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-308.7 referenced here - there are a few restrictions.
 
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