Everyone has their line

Let me guess who would ask this question.... Oh yeah. Got it.

I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident.

Yes.

"Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees"

administrator said:

Post Heller / McDonald, such hypotheticals are meaningless and make us look less than the legal and legislative professionals that we are.

Mass confiscation of all firearms, instigated either by the federal or state government, would be struck down as unconstitutional.

The fight has now moved to one of attrition, where the antis will try to nibble away at the types of firearms and ammo that may be possessed and carried and the places where we may carry.

In response, we need to focus on continuing the streak of legislative and judicial successes we have seen over the last several decades at all levels of government and continue to liberalize our gun laws. We need to make gun ownership a normal and healthy part of a civil society.

What to do to make this happen?
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- Raise your children to be gun owners!
- Take a friend or co-worker shooting
- Open Carry and be a goodwill ambassador for gun rights
- Join your state gun-rights group
- Join the NRA
- Join GOA
- Work tirelessly to elect only pro-gun representatives at all levels of government


John

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Why is a hypothetical question asking each individual on here where he draws his line in the sand a "meaningless" question. After all that's ultimately what 2A is all about.

"would be struck down as unconstitutional." You don't know that for sure. Do you have a crystal ball? Do you not see that there are forces daily trying to take away your 2A right? There are forces beyond the mere "Bradys" that are a more serious threat., but that's a whole nother topic.

I agree with what you are saying though about making gun ownership normal. I personally wish it was at a stage where gun ownership and 2A rights were commonplace, because I tire of seeing debates and intense talk about something that I think should already be the norm everywhere.

I wasn't aware that it was the goal of everyone on this site to be a legal professional. I personally do not care about being a legal professional. It does not take a professional to read "shall not be infringed" and completely understand what that means.

Some people have diverted attention away from my actual question and have turned it into a "that would never happen" or "it would more likely be this". We could talk hypotheticals and scenarios forever.

RockyMtnScotsman said:

Yes.

"Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees"

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I'm on my knees a lot these days, just not in the manner you mean. That having been said, I agree with you 100%. I did not lose my guns in a boating accident. They are right here with me. "COME AND TAKE IT" [THEM], as the Texicans said to the Mexican army at Gonzales. Anyone that would take this route for real, is a coward and not willing to take a stand that is righteous to the Constitution. I certainly trust and hope that the boating accident statement was meant as humor only.

wolffe said:

I wasn't aware that it was the goal of everyone on this site to be a legal professional. I personally do not care about being a legal professional. It does not take a professional to read "shall not be infringed" and completely understand what that means.

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UH....John is a "legal professional", and probably a damned sight better one than our current Pres. I agree that when he said it would be struck down that he maybe should have said it should be struck down. You never know these days what the folks in black will do.

I am not comfortable with answering a question about such a drastic situation on an open forum asked by a person so new to the forum. I will say I am willing to defend myself if need be.

Its illogical to assume the whole US military would obey an unconstitutional order to disarm our citizens. I know for a FACT we would have our own M1A tank and Specter Gunship. It will never happen flat out because the socialists know we would have massive amounts of hardware too, not just our pistols and rifles.

Mas49.56 said:

Its illogical to assume the whole US military would obey an unconstitutional order to disarm our citizens. I know for a FACT we would have our own M1A tank and Specter Gunship. It will never happen flat out because the socialists know we would have massive amounts of hardware too, not just our pistols and rifles.

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I don't thonk that it is the military that we would need to be concerned with, rather the BATFE, FBI, and the rest of the alphabet soup guys, oh yeah, and the locals. That's why I always mention www.oathkeepers.org when I engage in conversation with any LEO for any reason.

The last place I worked before retiring was a major defense contractor. Frequently, our installation would have military guests in the building for days or a week of seminars, training, etc. Several times, I posed a similar question to some of these military personnel what went something like this.

If an order was issued to begin the process of the confiscation and collection of privately owned firearms, and this order came down from the white house, do you think the military would carry out this order? (sometimes I added the phrase, "knowing that such an order would be illegal").

To a man, their answers were perhaps a few would but the majority would most likely refuse to carry out such an order since it would be in violation of their military oath, not to mention the Posse Comitatus Act. A few acknowledged that such an order issued by the president would also be illegal and therefore not subject to being obeyed.

It would be very hard to have American military personnel opening fire on civilians because those personnel would also have to be aware of the fact that other military personnel are probably firing on their own families and friends back in their home towns.

I just don't ever see this happening in this country. Not an impossibility, but pretty remote.

rodbender said:

I'm on my knees a lot these days, just not in the manner you mean.

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I know what you mean and that's a good point which which I can relate well. I've always liked the quote, though I can't recall whose it is that "you can't reach higher than when you're on your knees".

Bikenut said:

The elitist Leftists are panty wetting afraid because they know that gun owners represent the only viable threat to their desire for power and control. And it isn't the gun owner's guns that they are afraid of..... it is the concept of liberty, the independence of spirit, the refusal to kiss ass, the courage to stand up, that the gun represents that they fear.

Consider the reaction of a Leftist who gets right up in the face of a person openly carrying a gun and begins to shout about how intimidated and scared that gun makes them "feel". Total BS. They are neither "scared" nor "intimidated"... they are enraged that someone is showing them they have the courage and convictions to openly carry a gun and the Leftist knows he has no power to control them.

Scratch a Leftist elitist and you will find an arrogant control freak convinced they, and they alone, are God's gift to humanity innately possessing the intellect that all "those common people" lack.

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+100, you hit the nail on the head.

Exactly

Bikenut said:

The elitist Leftists are panty wetting afraid because they know that gun owners represent the only viable threat to their desire for power and control. And it isn't the gun owner's guns that they are afraid of..... it is the concept of liberty, the independence of spirit, the refusal to kiss ass, the courage to stand up, that the gun represents that they fear.

Consider the reaction of a Leftist who gets right up in the face of a person openly carrying a gun and begins to shout about how intimidated and scared that gun makes them "feel". Total BS. They are neither "scared" nor "intimidated"... they are enraged that someone is showing them they have the courage and convictions to openly carry a gun and the Leftist knows he has no power to control them.

Scratch a Leftist elitist and you will find an arrogant control freak convinced they, and they alone, are God's gift to humanity innately possessing the intellect that all "those common people" lack.

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+1

Bikenut said:

The elitist Leftists are panty wetting afraid because they know that gun owners represent the only viable threat to their desire for power and control. And it isn't the gun owner's guns that they are afraid of..... it is the concept of liberty, the independence of spirit, the refusal to kiss ass, the courage to stand up, that the gun represents that they fear.

Consider the reaction of a Leftist who gets right up in the face of a person openly carrying a gun and begins to shout about how intimidated and scared that gun makes them "feel". Total BS. They are neither "scared" nor "intimidated"... they are enraged that someone is showing them they have the courage and convictions to openly carry a gun and the Leftist knows he has no power to control them.

Scratch a Leftist elitist and you will find an arrogant control freak convinced they, and they alone, are God's gift to humanity innately possessing the intellect that all "those common people" lack.

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Amen! We represent what they hate. I used to travel among these people in my teenage years and the contempt they feel for people like us is visceral. They really do believe they know better and it we'd just take the time and make the effort to listen to and learn from them, everyone would be better off. What they lack is their understanding of reality and the historical record. The path of human history is littered with those who have chosen or allowed others to think and do for them.

SouthernBoy said:

Amen! We represent what they hate. I used to travel among these people in my teenage years and the contempt they feel for people like us is visceral. They really do believe they know better and it we'd just take the time and make the effort to listen to and learn from them, everyone would be better off. What they lack is their understanding of reality and the historical record. The path of human history is littered with those who have chosen or allowed others to think and do for them.

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Agreed.

"History doesn't matter and is useless" - My sister upon me citing past events for the need of 2A.

Also please stay on topic. Discuss whether you personally would resist the tyranny with force if necessary.

wolffe said:

Agreed.

"History doesn't matter and is useless" - My sister upon me citing past events for the need of 2A.

Also please stay on topic. Discuss whether you personally would resist the tyranny with force if necessary.

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See post #26 for my "stay on topic" response.

Katrina answered this clearly, it is NOT hypothetical it happened a few short years

Bottom line is, almost every single person did indeed give up their guns when the police illegally seized them, I find it amazing memories of history are so short.

It is also indeed notable that several guardsmen and responsible officers involved did refuse to participate in the illegal activities.

Overall, such an operation would not be instantaneous and used firearms are sold and traded all the time, what the government actually knows the location of and the actual numbers they can find are significantly different.

I think most would comply with the arms they knew would be tracked and would not with the ones that were not going to be proven in their possession.

I also tend to agree that there would indeed be an armed resistance, but it would not take place instantly, and it would be 6 to 12 months before it was developed. That might be too long for it to be quickly effective. It is kind of a doomsday type story and as soft as a people as we have become, it is only spirit that might prevail.

wolffe said:

Agreed.

"History doesn't matter and is useless" - My sister upon me citing past events for the need of 2A.

Also please stay on topic. Discuss whether you personally would resist the tyranny with force if necessary.

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You do understand that LE agencies... including local, State, and Federal (yeah, even the big one's) ... watch this forum? And that a poster's identity is easily accessible to said agencies?

And that many of those agencies are filled with those panty wetting leftist elitists I mentioned in my post above this one?

Bikenut said:

You do understand that LE agencies... including local, State, and Federal (yeah, even the big one's) ... watch this forum? And that a poster's identity is easily accessible to said agencies?

And that many of those agencies are filled with those panty wetting leftist elitists I mentioned in my post above this one?

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I appreciate your concern, but I use proxy servers and various other identity concealment methods I won't mention when browsing the internet. If they tried to trace my ip, they would find I lived in Hong Kong or Southeast Asia or something. That doesn't mean I browse anything illegally online though, I just think its safer from viruses & Identify theft this way.

I also do not care who knows or doesn't know that I would resist tyranny with force as a last resort. I stand on the position proudly and no amount of leftists or anti's scare me.

SouthernBoy said:

See post #26 for my "stay on topic" response.

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Sorry I when I mentionted to stay on topic I did not mean for it to be directed at you, but it would easily be assumed so because I quoted you before. I meant generally to those who are not on topic.

wolffe said:

Sorry I when I mentionted to stay on topic I did not mean for it to be directed at you, but it would easily be assumed so because I quoted you before. I meant generally to those who are not on topic.

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We're good to go, sir.